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Unread 12-24-2001, 07:07 AM   #1
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Why don't Lubavitch Chassidim have long Peios?

Why Lubavitchers don't keep long peios like all other chassidim?
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Unread 12-24-2001, 07:07 AM   #2
Tzemach
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According to Kabbalah the Peios shouldn't touch the beard, for this reason we cut our Peios. The Holy Arizal himself cut his Peios. According to Halachah the Pei'os should be long enough to reach the cheekbone. The Lubavitch custom follows the view of the Holy Arizal.
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Unread 12-24-2001, 07:08 AM   #3
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Hi Tzemach. Can I have a direct source for this if poss. It so happens that we were discussing it in a Fabrengan the other day.
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Unread 12-24-2001, 07:09 AM   #4
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In Shulchan Aruch Yoreh De’ah (181:9) it says that the Peios should reach the cheekbone. The Rambam in Hilchos Avodah Zarah (12:6) writes that the Peios should be at least 40 hairs wide.

In a letter of the Rebbe dated 26 Tishrei 5721 (Shaar Halachah U’minhag Vol. 3 page 95) the Rebbe writes the following (free translation):

“The custom about which you write, i.e. not to touch the Peios at all, I have not seen [this custom] in Chabad, and to the contrary.

“Many reason can be said about this -- this may include the reason you allude to in your letter, not mix the light of the two tikunim of the 13 tikunei dikna kadisha – but aside from this it is stated explicitly that the Arizal would cut and shorten his peios with scissors (Shaar Hamitzvos and Taamei Hamitzvos Parshas Kedoshim).

“Therefore, the words of the Talmud in Succa (32b) that a student ought to follow his Rebbe’s teachings even when this includes a leniency apply to this case, and especially that in our case it is not only a teaching but a Maaseh Rav.
“Thus, it can be understood, that the real question, and a very strong question is on those that DON’T touch their peios at all, contrary the way the living Arizal did it.

“Also see Darkei Teshuvah to Yoreh Deah (181) … and see Darkei Chaim V’sholom [from the Minchas Elazar] chapter 880 that the Peios should not be put behind the ears.
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Unread 12-24-2001, 07:09 AM   #5
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Hi Tzemach. Thanks for taking the time to get the sources. You mention "the Arizal would cut and shorten his peios ", which emplies that he used to keep SOME Peios? From your post it does not seem clear why Lubavitchers don't seem to have Peios at all beyond the top of the ear....
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Unread 12-24-2001, 07:09 AM   #6
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Of course we have Peios. Those small hairs are called Peios.
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Unread 12-24-2001, 07:10 AM   #7
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Ye. That i know, I just didn't seem it clearly from your post.

Thanks!
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Unread 02-11-2002, 12:11 AM   #8
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Hi-

A few Neturei Karta (however you spell their name) once had a Yechidus with the Rebbe, one of the questions raised was about the Payois length. The Rebbe proceeded to explain that the Arizal cut his Payois... They challenged the Rebbe to show them the source. The Rebbe got up took a certain Sefer (can't recall which one) from the shelf and showed it to them.
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Unread 02-11-2002, 12:32 AM   #9
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It was the Shulach Oruch of the Arizal.
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Unread 02-11-2002, 12:10 PM   #10
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I don't know if this is the same letter posted before, but there is a pretty clear letter from the Rebbe about Peyos in the beginning of Igros Kodesh Chelek 20.
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Unread 02-14-2002, 05:14 PM   #11
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what do you say to someone who is a bt and a mekurav to lubavitch who thinks that the way lubavitch wears payes doesnt look like the real thing - "not jewish enough"??
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Unread 02-14-2002, 05:33 PM   #12
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I know a few people the Rebbe told to leave the Payois long.

On a side [but relevant] note, when it came to the hats people wear also the Rebbe told many people to keep the ones they had been wearing all along and not wear the fedora like we do.

In general in matters like this, whatever feels more comfortable for that particular individual would probably be the correct approach. It's not an Aveira to have your Payois long.
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Unread 02-14-2002, 05:35 PM   #13
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PeaceinIsrael: I would ask him on what basis he decides what is or isn't Jewish enough.
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Unread 02-14-2002, 06:39 PM   #14
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The different methods of wearing payois is to distinguish between the beard and the peyois. So some place the payois behind the ears, some twirl them, and Lubavitch follows the Arizal to cut them at the border of the beard.
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Unread 02-15-2002, 01:12 PM   #15
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<<It's not an Aveira to have your Payois long.>>

of course its not. but you gotta be consistent.
if someone decides to raise their children as lubavitchers but adds their own minhagim, it can be very confusing for the kids.
on one hand they go to a lubavitch school, lubavitch friends, follow chabad minhagim etc but dont look like everyone else.
why? "bc lubavitch isnt holy enough in that way"

if the parents are passing on a family minhag to their children then its great, that you can explain to a kid.
were lubavitchers but ur zayde had his payes like this and so do we. it might be hard for the kid, but the kid is not confused as to who he is and where he belongs.

but if u consider urself to be lubavitch but make up minhagim to please yourself, you are giving mixed messages to your children.
lubavitch is good but not totally good enough for us.
(which reminds me of people who dont want to send their kids to ch bc of the tznius etc)

im sorry if this is slightly off the topic.
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Unread 02-15-2002, 02:54 PM   #16
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<<It's not an Aveira to have your Payois long.>>

I was simply implying what the Rebbe did on numerous occasions!

Many people the Rebbe told to "keep that hat" "keep the Payois" or other things.

I agree with you that you have to be consistent, but this does not mean that someone cannot have big Payois because everyone else does; to him the Payois are important.

<<but if u consider urself to be lubavitch but make up minhagim to please yourself>>
Agreed. It becomes confusing when they make up their own Minhagim, but I don't think it's too confusing on 1 or 2 issues.

Don't get me wrong, I think they should for sure do only Chabad Minhagim, but on a issue like this...
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Unread 02-16-2002, 11:00 PM   #17
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<<Don't get me wrong, I think they should for sure do only Chabad Minhagim, but on a issue like this...>> Who are we to decide which "Issue" is important or not. If the Rebbe told someone to keep the paios, then that is what he should do. Otherwise we have to stick to minhag chabad.
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Unread 02-19-2002, 09:20 AM   #18
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Short Peyos or no Peyos at all???

According to the Shulchan Aruch HoArizal the only problem would be once the beard starts growing in, Iz Mashma, that beforehand there is no "problem" of having at least sizable, recognizable peyos. So, why then are "Chassidim" sooooo makpid to be zrizin makdimin when it comes to beginning this minhog??? Any kid wjo goes to O.T. etc. and comes in with peyos alittle thicker or longer than normal is considered Satmer or weird. I know because I speak from experience.
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Unread 02-21-2002, 12:44 PM   #19
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It could be b/c they suspect the kid or his paerent5s of doing it on purpose b/c they believe that the peyos really should be longer. In such a case it would be like saying 'we know better than the Rebbe' ch"v.

umay inyan l'inyan. i was once on shlichus in a place where the shliahs parents or grandparents used to be a different type of chassidim. For some odd reason the shliach never had long payos but his kids used to have really thick ones. It ws very confusing for them, especially b/c the father just used to tell them 'b/c that is what i want.'
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Unread 02-21-2002, 02:19 PM   #20
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<<especially b/c the father just used to tell them 'b/c that is what i want.'>>

<<but if u consider urself to be lubavitch but make up minhagim to please yourself>>
Agreed. It becomes confusing when they make up their own Minhagim , but I don't think it's too confusing on 1 or 2 issues>>.
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Unread 02-21-2002, 03:00 PM   #21
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another problem i used to have with that same shliach (or actually his wife) is when they used to tell their mekurovim to grow bigger peyos! I mean it is one thing your own kids but other people....
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Unread 02-21-2002, 05:00 PM   #22
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Let's try and keep personal wrath off the thread, I'm sure there are many wonderful things this Shliach (and his wife) have accomplished throughout their lives, let's be Don lekaf zchus!
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Unread 02-21-2002, 06:11 PM   #23
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well....um....maybe....if i think hard....there was that one time when.....
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Unread 02-24-2002, 04:08 AM   #24
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Payas B'chlal & Friediker Rebbe's Payas...

Why don't Lubavitcher's (in general) have long Payas? One of my shabbos guests said he heard a story first hand from someone who did the Friediker Rebbe's Taharah and he said that when they took off his hat really long payas came out. I've also heard "stories" the Rebbe tucked long payas under his yamaka.

What've you guys heard?
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Unread 02-24-2002, 04:38 AM   #25
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That doesn't make too much sense - both lefee the pictures of the Frierdiker Rebbe without his hat, and mitzad official Lubavitch minhag.

A story of a group of Poilishers who came into the Rebbe's office and quite forcefully asked the Rebbe why we don't have loing peyois. The Rebbe pulled a Kisvei Arizal out of his bookshelf and read them the part (I haven't looked it up) which says that there are 2 mitzvos - the beard and peyois, and we don't have long peyos in order that they don't get mixed together. This has Kabbalistic connotations, but I'll leave that to RavLub or Tzemach to explain...
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