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Unread 09-23-2003, 01:17 PM   #1
Jude
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The Kennedy curse

... is there any truth to the story that the Satmar Rebbe cursed the Kennedy family?
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Unread 09-23-2003, 01:20 PM   #2
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I am sure there is.
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Unread 09-23-2003, 01:31 PM   #3
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really????
you mean I shouldn't dismiss it as third-hand baloney? how come?
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Unread 09-23-2003, 03:48 PM   #4
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Re Kennedy. I heard it was R. yisroel Jacobson.
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Unread 09-23-2003, 04:01 PM   #5
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in the July 16,1999 issue of THE FORWARD, that newspaper had published fifty years earlier to the day (or week) the following: German documents that had come to light (in 1949) revealed that, in 1938, then Ambassador Joe Kennedy told the Germans that he understands Germany's position with respect to the Jews and that the "Jewish Question" was in the interest of both the Germans and the
Americans. (In short, the implication was that the ambassador was an
anti-Semite and/or a Nazi sympathizer.)

supposedly, the curse was that Joe Kennedy would outlive his sons or that members of the family would die a misa mishuna
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Unread 05-06-2006, 07:26 AM   #6
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he Kennedy curse

Someone just told me a story that a chosid once cursed the father of the Kennedy's, does anybody know who, what, when, where, why and if it is true.
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Unread 05-06-2006, 12:04 PM   #7
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kennedy

This is what my mother told me. Joseph kennedy (JFK's dad) was one of the most powerful senator's in D.C. during the time of WWll. At that time the jewish community in USA was lobbying strongly for the us military to bomb the railroads leading to the camps and to destroy the camps so that the nazi war machine could not continue to massacre millions. The lubavitch community appealed to Joe Kennedy. He refused to give support to our plea, his excuse along with most of political/military america was that this would divert to much military power which could be better used to conquer the german army and thus more speedily end the war. The Frierdiker Rebbe then cursed Joe Kennedy that he would watch all his children die in his lifetime.

p.s. there is also a tale that Fidel Castro employed powerful witches to place a curse of his own on the kennedy family, less details here about that.
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Unread 05-06-2006, 02:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haonov
Someone just told me a story that a chosid once cursed the father of the Kennedy's, does anybody know who, what, when, where, why and if it is true.
Quote:
Question:Here in the US in the state of Maryland there is a Kennedy running for Governer. Most frum Jews know about the curse put on the Kennedy family after the first Kennedy coming over from Europe publicly insulted the Rabbi during davening on the boat ride coming over to the states. This is why the Kennedy family for years after that have had so much tzarot . Keeping all this in mind would it be halachicly wrong for a Jew to vote for this Kennedy for the Governer of the state of Maryland?

Answer:
The story of the alleged curse is pure legend, fabricated after Kennedy was running for President. In any event, Jews donít put curses on anybody. You should vote for whomever you feel to be the better person and candidate and will represent moral and Torah interests. In any event, I have sometimes felt that helping a person attain public office is in itself a form of revenge against that person.

Rabbi Berel Wein


http://www.yeshiva.org.il/ask/eng/se...=kennedy+curse
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Unread 05-06-2006, 09:13 PM   #9
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I heard mingmen's story, but not with the Raayatz, but some Rabbonim in England who formed a beis din to make the curse.
I highly doubt The Raayatz would do such a thing...
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Unread 05-06-2006, 09:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by why
I heard mingmen's story, but not with the Raayatz, but some Rabbonim in England who formed a beis din to make the curse.
I highly doubt The Raayatz would do such a thing...
there is a story about a Rosh Hashanah's minian in a ship
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Unread 05-06-2006, 09:32 PM   #11
Torah613
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And the story is also told about R" Yisroel Jacobson...
Probably an urban legend.
I believe this was already discussed once here, do a search.
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Unread 05-07-2006, 12:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613
And the story is also told about R" Yisroel Jacobson...
Probably an urban legend.
I believe this was already discussed once here, do a search.
I did a search and nothing else came up;
The story pre-dates Kennedy running for office;
The story I heard does not involve Chabad and relates to th elder Kennedy who was ammbassodor to England, and a very influential back room politician; Like many Irish at that time he was against the Us entering the war on the side of England.The Rebbe who supposedly cursed him was never identified in the storries I heard as a kid;
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Unread 05-07-2006, 12:56 AM   #13
Torah613
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Maybe I discussed it by PM with someone, no problem.
I think a Google search will turn up something.
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Unread 05-07-2006, 07:58 AM   #14
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There are two versions that are more accepted.
One is that the mekaleil was R' Aharon Kotler. The second version is that it was the Satmar Rov. The second version is considered more accurate.

During that gubernatorial election in Maryland ('02), Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, the daughter of Robert Kennedy, met with Rabbi Neuberger A"H of Ner Israel and asked him point blank what he knew about the curse, which disturbed her for obvious reasons. He told her that it came from a sect he has nothing to do with, i.e. Satmar. (He wasn't only saying that to get out of 'trouble'.)
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Unread 05-07-2006, 10:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613
Maybe I discussed it by PM with someone, no problem.
I think a Google search will turn up something.
Here is an article by S BoteachIs there a Jewish Curse on the Kennedys?

By Rabbi Shmuley Boteach

Like most young Americans, I have always been fascinated by the Kennedys. I
twice had the occasion to meet, albeit very briefly, with Senator Edward
Kennedy in Washington. He told me that since his brother Bobby had spoken at
Oxford during his campaign for the presidency in 1968, he would like to come
as well. It hasn't happened yet, but we are still working on it.

I also then met with his nephew, Rep. Joseph Kennedy, who likewise committed
to speak at some point, but warned me that as a Congressman, his schedule is
too unpredictable and it could be a long while before he could accept.

This having been said, I was terribly saddened to hear of the tragic death
of John F Kennedy, Jr, perhaps more so than most because I am an avid reader
of George magazine and have for years followed John-John's progress. When
the magazine was launched in the United States a few years ago, I tried
desperately to get him to come and speak to the students of Oxford. I had a
friend who worked on the publicity for the launch of the magazine, and it
looked like it might happen. JFK Jr told us that he would like to do the
lecture, but that it could only happen sometime in the future. The future
now seems sadly open-ended.

But this latest and most horrible of the Kennedy tragedies has led me to a
conclusion that I have pondered in the past: the Kennedys are the Jews of
the Catholic world.

Everyone knows that Joseph Kennedy, Sr., patriarch of the whole Kennedy
dynasty, was an anti-Semite. Some even go so far as to make him partially
responsible for the holocaust. And while that is probably a bit much, what
is definitely known is that he expressed to ******'s diplomatic
representatives in Britain his opinion that the Americans would make no real
objections to their anti-Semitic policies. While serving as American
Ambassador to the Court of St James, Kennedy met with his German counterpart
and advised him that his American government would make no real protests
against ******'s persecution of the Jews since "we don't really like these
people (the Jews) either. In fact, we don't let them into our country
clubs." Political analysts say that the German Ambassador reported this back
to ****** as a license to begin implementing the first stages of the
holocaust without fearing strong protests from Western powers. Kennedy was
also an outspoken opponent of the United States entering into the war
against ******.

Be that as it may, it seems odd, in light of Joe Senior's strong dislike of
the Jews, that the Kennedys should have ended up just like the Jews. Some
will dislike the comparison, protesting against the more extreme examples of
reckless Kennedy conduct. But I make the analogy in another sense. The
Kennedy family history compares remarkably with that of the Jews. Like the
Jews, they are an immigrant family of immense achievement who have left an
indelible mark on society. But like the Jews, they are plagued with terrible
misfortune. Like the Jews, they have seen their sons become the targets of
political assassination. Like the Jews, it seems that fate has conspired
against them to rob them of any real or lasting happiness. And like the
Jews, any time it appears as though their sad history is finally behind
them, another inexplicable tragedy comes along and makes their life a misery
once again.

Is this the price of greatness? Is it simply a fact that when providence
ordains you for great achievement, tragedy is always just one step behind?

I cannot answer this question, except to say that G-d has a lot of
explaining to do for all the terrible misfortune that plagues humanity,
especially those individuals who seem to receive far more than their fair
share.

But I write these lines to make an important point. There has long been talk
in Jewish religious circles that one of the great Rabbis who died in the
holocaust, whose name I shall for now omit, cursed Joseph Kennedy that his
sons should die, because he did not stand up to the Germans and allowed the
Jews to become their victims. Just as the Jews would lose their sons, so the
story goes, this great Jewish holy man cursed Joe Senior that his children
would meet the same fate. I personally have repeatedly heard this story
beginning when I entered Yeshiva at thirteen years old.

I want to make it clear that even if we were to believe that a holy man has
the power to curse another man and have it come true, this story would still
be ludicrous and I hope that it is never again repeated in Jewish circles.
No man who could be called a tzaddik, or righteous, pious man, should ever
curse anyone else, should ever use whatever lofty powers he possesses to
bring anything but blessing upon his fellow creatures. We are empowered by
G-d to be angels of mercy, and not messengers of destruction. But this is
especially true of cursing a man's children. In Judaism we have a strong
tradition that the children are never held accountable for the sins of their
fathers. We reject the concept of vertical accountability utterly. Every man
and every woman are judged by the just G-d based on their own actions and
never by that of their forebears. The righteous G-d would never sanction
children being held accountable, or punished, for the iniquity of their
parents.

Whatever Joe Sr. might have said or done has absolutely no bearing on his
children. By all accounts JFK Jr was a thoroughly decent man, and one of
great humility. As a Jew I pray that G-d bring comfort and an end to the
tragedy and misfortune of all families. And right now, especially to the
Kennedys.





Scott A.Newland
The L'Chaim Society
Director of Operations
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Note that he says the curse, if true was from a Rabbi who died in the Holocaust. That's How I remember it too but the identity of the Rebbe was not mentioned in these stories.
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Unread 05-07-2006, 10:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chabad Friend
There are two versions that are more accepted.
One is that the mekaleil was R' Aharon Kotler. The second version is that it was the Satmar Rov. The second version is considered more accurate.

During that gubernatorial election in Maryland ('02), Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, the daughter of Robert Kennedy, met with Rabbi Neuberger A"H of Ner Israel and asked him point blank what he knew about the curse, which disturbed her for obvious reasons. He told her that it came from a sect he has nothing to do with, i.e. Satmar. (He wasn't only saying that to get out of 'trouble'.)
If you do a Google search, you will find at least four "sources" i.e alleged Rabbis who cursed.
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Unread 05-07-2006, 10:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chabad Friend
There are two versions that are more accepted.
One is that the mekaleil was R' Aharon Kotler. The second version is that it was the Satmar Rov. The second version is considered more accurate.

During that gubernatorial election in Maryland ('02), Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, the daughter of Robert Kennedy, met with Rabbi Neuberger A"H of Ner Israel and asked him point blank what he knew about the curse, which disturbed her for obvious reasons. He told her that it came from a sect he has nothing to do with, i.e. Satmar. (He wasn't only saying that to get out of 'trouble'.)
if true, does indeed sound like he was trying to avoid blame.
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Unread 05-07-2006, 10:57 AM   #18
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Here is an article quoting Rabbi Chaim Gutnick; KENNEDY HEX SHOCKED THE WORLD!

JERUSALEM - The so-called "Kennedy curse" is a very real hex placed on the powerful political family by a vengeful rabbi, some religious scholars say!
They say the curse is payback for patriarch Joseph Kennedy's refusal to help Europe's Jews escape the Nazis just before World War II. "The fact that Mr. Kennedy was cursed has been flying around the Jewish world since the war," says Rabbi Chaim Gutnick, president of the Rabbinical Council of Victoria, in an interview with Australia's Sunday Tasmanian newspaper.
Kennedy was U.S. ambassador to Britain from 1938 to 1940. Some historians say Kennedy sympathized with the strengthening Nazi regime, and wanted to keep America out of the European war.
As the war loomed, historians say, he was asked to help get visas for 500 Jews who were about to be shipped off to certain death in Nazi labor camps.
He refused, and returned to America in 1940. Soon after, the family tragedies began:
  • 1941: Disabled daughter Rosemary is institutionalized after a failed lobotomy.
  • 1944: Eldest son Joseph Jr. is killed in a wartime plane crash.
  • 1948: Daughter Kathleen dies in a plane crash.
  • 1963: Grandson Patrick Bouvier Kennedy, third child of President John F. Kennedy and Jacqueline Kennedy, dies two days after birth.
  • 1963: President Kennedy is assassinated in Dallas, Texas.
  • 1968: Son Robert is assassinated in Los Angeles, after locking up the Democratic presidential nomination by winning the California primary.
  • 1969: Son Ted drives off a bridge after a party in Chappaquiddick, Mass., killing a young female aide and causing a scandal that persists 34 years later.
  • 1984: Grandson David dies of a drug overdose in Florida.
  • 1997: Grandson Michael dies in a skiing accident in Colorado.
  • 1999: Grandson John Jr. dies in a plane crash.
No one can say for sure which rabbi invoked the Kennedy curse. But there's no doubt in some religious circles that the curse was called down.
Talk of the rabbi's curse flared up in Israeli newspapers for months after John Jr.'s 1999 death.
"Many people had good cause" to curse Kennedy, Gutnick says. "Many asked him to intervene in the plight of the Jews, and his response was bad."
By KATE McCLARE
Weekly World News

Published on: 08/12/2003

Get WWN Wireless and learn what "they" don't want you to know. Get it now! Receive Weekly World News at home and SAVE 74% get_ad(300,250);
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Unread 05-08-2006, 04:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frumkite
Question:Here in the US in the state of Maryland there is a Kennedy running for Governer. Most frum Jews know about the curse put on the Kennedy family after the first Kennedy coming over from Europe publicly insulted the Rabbi during davening on the boat ride coming over to the states. This is why the Kennedy family for years after that have had so much tzarot . Keeping all this in mind would it be halachicly wrong for a Jew to vote for this Kennedy for the Governer of the state of Maryland?

Answer:
The story of the alleged curse is pure legend, fabricated after Kennedy was running for President. In any event, Jews donít put curses on anybody. You should vote for whomever you feel to be the better person and candidate and will represent moral and Torah interests. In any event, I have sometimes felt that helping a person attain public office is in itself a form of revenge against that person.

Rabbi Berel Wein

http://www.yeshiva.org.il/ask/eng/se...=kennedy+curse

I'm not surprised noone accepted R' Wein as a source.

But noone attacked him either??
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Unread 05-08-2006, 05:28 PM   #20
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Why blame the Rabbis maybe he cursed himself by refusing to help Jews in a time of need.
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Unread 09-19-2006, 07:27 AM   #21
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just to add
Patricia Kennedy Lawford, the sister of President John F. Kennedy and wife of actor Peter Lawford, died at her New York home of complications of pneumonia on Sunday
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Unread 09-19-2006, 07:58 AM   #22
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... at age 82. So?
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Unread 09-28-2006, 03:00 PM   #23
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From Wikipedia:

"There are several theories regarding the origin of the "curse". According to Kennedy detractor Edward Klein, there is a story that Joseph Kennedy made his way to the Court of St. James as ambassador in 1937. On a trip back to the United States, aboard an ocean liner that was also carrying a Lubavitcher rabbi named Israel Jacobson and six of his yeshiva students, who were fleeing the Nazis, Kennedy complained to the ship's captain about the distracting noises caused by the Jewish passengers praying on the high holy days of Rosh Hashanah. He demanded that they be forbidden to continue exercises so distracting to fellow passengers. "Rabbi Jacobson put a curse on Kennedy, damning him and all his male offspring to tragic fates.""
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Unread 09-28-2006, 04:51 PM   #24
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Well, the year given is definitely wrong, as far as when they "fled" the Nazis.
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Unread 09-28-2006, 05:03 PM   #25
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I noticed that - as well as the fact that this Edward Klein is considered to be some what of a crack . . .
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