Yeshivos that offer other stuff

[Jude]

Every so often you see an ad for a yeshiva that says something like:

"learn Torah and practical skills"
"our curriculum consists of in-depth learning of: Chassidus-Gemara-Halacha-Safrus-Computers and Limudei Chol (optional) and more ..."

in other words, a yeshiva for teens which offers classes in things other than Torah

I wonder whether anybody who runs Chabad yeshivos like these got a bracha from the Rebbe for a program like this
in the sicha of Pinchas 5747, os 8, the Rebbe says, "regarding yeshiva bachurim - their inyan has to be limud ha'Torah exclusively

[mordechai7215]

Jude, what your saying is true, but not all bachurim can handel a full day of yeshivah, something which keeps these guys off the street and better yet learning is a good thing. The only thing that I wonder is, do these institutions lower the standerds. Would bachurim who would normally cut it in a full schedule, now choose to go to these programs. I know of at least one of these things which only takes in bachurim who are not currently inrolled in a yeshivah.

[stwill]

The "Bet Sefer Lemelachah" of Kfar Chabad was founded by the Rebbe. At the time, they learned a craft in addition to Limudei Kodesh. The switch to computers is just keeping up with the times.

Of course, the lachatchilah choice for a Lubavitcher Bochur is to be involved only in Torah. These Mosdos are meant for those who for some reason are not able to do that.

[Jude]

The "Bet Sefer Lemelachah" of Kfar Chabad was founded by the Rebbe.

who was it founded for?

by the same token, the Rebbe pleaded for chinuch al taharas ha'kodesh=no secular studies, yet most Lubavitcher mosdos have secular studies and brachos from the Rebbe ...

[to clarify: this thread is not about the typical school with limudei kodesh and limudei chol, but a yeshiva that offers vocational training or GED or things other than learning]

[elchonon]

for years my father fought to have the chabad yeshiva in miami just limudey kodesh, but no one listend i used to attend limudey kodesh at the yeshiva by day and when they learnd english me and a group of other kids would learn limudey kodesh... though this was elementry. the kids going to these schools are all worried about jobs college v'chulu v'chulu. i tell despite never attending any english classes etc... i have never had a problem geting a job.. but i guess other people feel diffrently. and i think that any kid over the age of 18 that cannot sit in yeshiva all day should join nachal charedi

[Jude]

nachal chareidi? isn't that where semi-frum kids go and become frei?

[alec770]

There is an absolute premise that must be clearly clearly stated concerning these moisdois:

They are not for the average bochur!

These are for boys that are severely lacking in even basic yiras shomayim. They should be looked at as a foot back in the door for a student patially or completely out the door.

With that premise, the question doesn't begin. Should we not open special yeshivois for baalei teshuva? Should Chabad not have programs to reach out to the unaffiliated? Would anyone suggest that such programs (for BTs or unaffiliated) should aim toward reaching the same expectations as Toimchei Tmimim?

On the other hand: It goes without saying that halocha cannot be compromised in the yeshivois for "special" bochurim. Also, och un vei to the administrations of such moisdois that indiscriminately accept "regular" bochurim that would have been successful in a regular program. Also, shluchim and mashpiim need to show much more discretion in recommending these places. I have personally seen many bochurim that have used theses moisdois as a way out, r"l, instead of as a foot in the door.

[stwill]

what if they're just lacking in zitzfleish?

[Torah613]

... or ability (mentally) to learn gemmoroh all day?

[alec770]

Those are different problems than most of these yeshivos are designed to do.

There used to be a yeshiva in Canada designed for that, but I heard that it closed and a vocational program opened instead.

You must thoroughly check out a place to confirm that it is designed to address ziztsfleisch and concentration issues alone before exposing an otherwise good bochur to the horrors that he will be exposed to if you are wrong (If the boys were already part way off the derech they can be into tarfois, drugs, girls, etc.).

[alec770]

Originally posted by Torah613
... or ability (mentally) to learn gemmoroh all day?

By the way, like with anything worthwhile, most boys think that they lack the ability to learn gemmoroh "all day". It is up to their parents and teachers to convince them otherwise.

All too often, today, the sad truth is that the reverse occurs.

[Torah613]

There are children that have legitimate learning issues, that the regular schools are ill equipped to deal with - and "convincing" will not solve the problem.

[alec770]

Originally posted by Torah613
There are children that have legitimate learning issues, that the regelur schools are ill equipped to deal with - and "convincing" will not solve the problem.

True, but they are the minority among those that wave that flag.


That has been a pet peeve of mine for some time: Why don't our yeshivois build an adequate special education program. Many smaller communittees than ours have taken action. I would rather donate money to so lofty a cause as that than many of the other things I am approached for......

[Jude]

Originally posted by RavLub
...The programs that have been created to date, rarely or (sometimes) never successfully mainstream a student back into the "system." Success is defined by the aforementioned standards, and there is no serious attempt to shoot any higher.

As far as trade schools are concerned, Rabbi J. J. Hecht was approached by a number of parents to create such a program, quite a few years back. When he asked the Rebbe, the response he received was; "Ein zeh miderech Chabad B'artzos Habris (this is not the way of Chabad in the U.S)." His son told me, that he understood that to mean, that too many parents would take the easy way out with their children, if such an opportunity was made available to them.

From .. many other Sichos and responses, it is clear that the Rebbe does not hold of lowering expectations, but rather challenging and demanding more from those who are not fitting the mold.

[rebbelution]

I feel that more places like Bucharim in Kfar Chabad should be opening where as well as learning there are other skills to learn in AVODAS HAKODESH.
How wonderful that the bochurim who maybe cannot sit and learn all day can learn safrus, shechita etc.
Many places are offering computers, cookery, psychology etc which are not ideally the things that bochurim should be busy with. Unfortunately many good bochurim who unfortunately dont have the zitsfleish or ability to sit in regular yeshivas end up in these places mixing with bochurim who ideally want to be doing the other things and just by the way ended up in a place where they learn a bit too. The good bochurim just end up being dragged down. If there were more places where the 'vocational' skills were safrus, shechita etc, i feel this would fill a large void in the world bichlal and of course in Lubavitch where such skills are more likely to come to greater use.

[Jude]

excellent point
mila, hashgacha ...

[rebbelution]

yep. There must be other places that offer this stuff, i've never heard of any though.

[noneuman]

Students need to be taught how to learn, especially at times when they are not in a formal setting. Many students have a language barrier in Lubavitch schools when the teachers instruct in Hebrew or Yiddish.