shleimus ha'aretz

[Jude]

The Rebbe told the story about the Rogatchover Gaon who was living in Leningrad when he was sent a notice which said he owed money for two taxes. The Gaon examined the documents and concluded that he owed only the first tax but al pi din torah, not the second one. The next day he was informed that there had been an error and he didn't have to pay the second tax altogether.
From this story, the Rebbe concludes that a psak din of a rav which is made al pi Torah, affects the world. The Rebbe takes those rabbanim to task who don't proclaim that talking about land, concessions etc. (or only say the psak din in the privacy of their room) is wrong and dangerous. The Rebbe says these rabbanim are responsible for the continued danger hovering over millions of Jews. (see sicha motzei Shabbos Bereishis 5740).

[ChachChach]

i think i speak for most of us when i say that we hurt so much about the situation in israel, but we dont know what we can do about it....is there any horas from the rebbe that deal with practical things that we can do about the matzov? something that your ordinary teen can do?

[Jude]

check out truepeace.org
you can: 1) tell others about it 2) click on "what can I do" for ideas

[blackhorse]

Bichlal I'm sure improving in Torah & Mitzovs, and Ahavas Yisroel may be a good start?!?! ;-)

[ChachChach]

true, but since we're physical ppl, sometimes it makes us feel better when we see results right away

[WanderingJew]

on true Peace, check out Chaim Fogelman's song called "the Prayer"...if you haven't heard it yet, you'll see what i mean.
Kapitel Ayin-Tes is a great one to say for Israel's safety. May Hashem take mercy on his children!

[Jude]

I urge everyone to sign the petition at www.pillarsofwisdom.com/petition (http://www.pillarsofwisdom.com/petition)

which is a petition calling on the world to recognize that Eretz Yisrael belongs to the Jewish people NOT because the U.N. said so, and NOT because Jews settled there, or any other reason. The REAL reason it belongs to us is because G-D SAID SO IN THE TORAH. The Rebbe says this is the ONLY claim we should make, and that the goyim will in fact respect this.

[PeaceInIsrael]

its hard to believe that even at time like this, that there are "frum" jews out there who are undecided about peace with the arabs.

its makes me realise once again, how lucky we are to be chassidim and how the rebbes words are timeless.


p.s. i know its an extreme but when i saw "frum" jews in chasidic garb standing on a street corner in manhattan waving a plo flag, i wanted to throw up. (excuse my language)
i dont understand it and never will.
to add to the pain, its the biggest chillul hashem.

[ChachChach]

you know what the funniest thing is? i remember that when i was just begining school, my (not lubavitch) teacher was talking about making peace with the arabs, and how it would be so good for the jews. meanwhile, i was wondering what was going on, bc i had clearly heard the opposite from my home:)

[Jude]

I just read an article about a Chabad shaliach in CA who had a gala dinner in a fancy hotel with lots of distinguished guests. The one who topped them all was Binyanim Netanyahu. There must be something I'm missing here. Netanyahu won the election for Prime Minister thanks, in great part, to Chabad, who got the vote out for him. Then he proceeded to renege on his promises to Chabad about shleimus ha'aretz, and betrayed them and the entire country, by giving Chevron away to our enemies. Since then, Jews have been murdered there, and their blood is on his hands. Yet, he was honored at a Chabad dinner ... :confused:

[ChachChach]

guess you can ask the same question about ANY politician who dealt in israeli politcs (sides for a few exceptions like ghandi)

[Shliachwannabe]

I know this is not a "Lubavitch" issue, but the current events taking place in Eretz Yisroel are very depressing. What can one do living in chutz-La'aretz. I feel so wrong living my day to day life while yidden are being slaughtered. I know spiritually speaking we can do more mitzvos, etc. but is that all. It's almost like telling a Jew living in America during the holocaust to say Tehillim. It is so frustrating! Ad Mosai! Why don't we hear an uproar from the big Jewish organizations. Where are the Jews of the world? What kind of sick country are we living in that doesn't give Sharon the greenlight? I'm ashamed of the American Flag. America only cares for itself. How can we smile today? I feel lost.

[Jude]

I definitely relate to your frustration. I was also upset with Clinton and our govt. but now?! Sharon had the green light a dozen times, and hasn't done anything! He should have blown the P.A. to bits on 9/11 when they cheered at America's tragedy, but he didn't. I no longer blame America for Sharon's passivity.

[ChachChach]

there's something about power that goes to people's head. before they become prime minister, they talk big, and are all passionate about standing up for what's right, but as soon as they enter office....

its a huge, annoying, maddening problem.

the Rebbe always said that if the Israeli government would stand up and proudly follow what the torah says, without thinking about world opinion, these problems would be solved. and its very true-as soon as you start to compromise bc of what others think, you land in hot water

[Shliachwannabe]

<<<there's something about power that goes to people's head>>>

I'm afraid it's something bigger than that. Everyone knew Sharon as one that doesn't stand for that garbage. He's a fighter. He's a warrior. I'm telling you there is tremendous pressure from America that we don't know about. Look at Netanyahu talking now - It seems as if he's back to himself in the pre prime-minister days. He seemed to be such a coward while in office. Before Sharon was elected, EVERYONE said, if Sharon would be prime-minister things would be different.

[WanderingJew]

I was just thinking along those lines after seeing the latest CNN update, 6 Israelis killed, Hashem yishmor...
it seems that no matter who will be the next prime minister, the political situation won't get any better. it's as if they get paralyzed by some monstrous fear, as soon as they get elected, so that all the encouraging, supportive promises they made to us just disappear, as if they never spoke.
Our "leaders" have to face the fact that everyone knows all too well-
ISRAEL HAS NO FRIENDS. ANY "SUPPORT" FROM AMERICA
IS SELF-SERVING AND FICKLE,WITH AN ULTERIOR MOTIVE SOON TO BE REVEALED.

[Jude]

the Rebbe says: do what you gotta do, don't be on the defensive, quote the first Rashi, and the world will RESPECT you!

[Shliachwannabe]

Jude, Absolutely right again. If I remember correctly, when Netanyahu (while Prime-Minister) spoke in front of a joint session of Congress, he banged on the table saying, "Jerusalem will remain undivided" - meaning there is NO negotiations. What was the response - A standing ovation.

[ChachChach]

its funny how with every prime minister, the line drawn in the dirt gets a bit further away. i remember seeing a video presentation about the golan heights, and rabin was saying something like "it wont even enter out minds to withdraw from the golan heights." now we need to have the pm bang on the table to reassure us that yerushalayim wont be divided....

[Jude]

the standing ovation happened summer 1996

no, we don't need any green light
the problem is (see Open Your Eyes thread) - Jews still operate with a galus mentality. The galus approach was fine ... in galus. Yaakov's approach with Eisav: bribe, pray, prepare for possible war, was what we had to do in galus. The Rebbe has been saying: Yidden, wake up! On all levels, communal, personal, the Geula has become a reality.

Now what happens when you still operate with a galus mentality while in Geula? Lots of negative things ... check out Arutz Sheva to see the tragic results in that area

[CheBraccia]

I remember seeing some Yeshiva's say special kapitlach of Tehillim for the situation in Eretz Israel. I think they were:

Chof, Chof Beis, Samech Tes, and Kuf Nun.

Saying these each day after davening is the list one can do!!! Especially those living outside of Israel.

[PeaceInIsrael]

shliachwannabe, there are many many people who share your frusturation. even the biggest activists are getting fed up.

its horrifying to think that jews in america felt the same way during the holocaust.

but what can we do?

[CheBraccia]

I remember a few years back, after a terrorist attack, people would be in shock and would do anything they felt they can do to help (demonstrate, donate, help families). We've reached a stage of numbness. We wake in the morning go to CNN and read about the latest terrorist attack. "Oh Thank G-d there were no dead, only 5 injured" How far have we fallen? 5 Jews were injured and had their lifes changed forever and we are happy that their are no Dead???

We have to wake up, maybe demonstrations don't help any more, maybe we are not in the position to make a contribution, but the least we can do is feel sorry and pray for those hurt!!!

How could we go on with our normal life, when Jewish brothers and sisters are being gunned down and murdered every day?

A good beginning for a change to the better would be the mere fact that we care! True we say "terrible news, did you hear what happened"... But we have to also feel the pain, we have to know that there are Jewish families who will never be the same after each attack, they will not have their beloved one come home that evening. The kids will not have a father/mother anymore, or the parents will not have one of their children anymore.
After all, every tzadik killed in an attack weather he's a soldier or a resident of Yesha, is out their to ensure that Jews can live more peacefully in Yerushalayim or any other place in Israel.

Let us at least wake up and make a change for the better. Say a little Tehillim, pay more attention to what's going on, and truely feel for what's happening.

[Col]

Stop Deceiving the Arabs
By Rabbi Ben Tzion Krasnianski

The real question: Do Jews belong in Israel?

Oslo is an arrogant and wholesale dismissal of our Arabic cousins. The Arabs have a serious argument. At Camp David they cited to former President Clinton the famous Biblical story of the two mothers arguing over the baby and King Solomon's brilliant verdict. They argued that the very fact that Israel was willing to divide or even to negotiate Jerusalem while the Arabs were not, proved that the Israelis were not the true mothers!

The Arabs view Jews, especially European Jews, as a foreign implant, as outsiders who have colonized and occupied native Arab land. All the most reasonable and logical arguments in the world and all the UN resolutions combined will not change for them the simple fact that Jews don't belong in Israel. According to the Arabs, all of Israel is one big settlement, and all Israelis are settlers occupying the land of millions of displaced Arabs. This is the fundamental truth that lies at the heart of this long conflict. The Arabs are a spirited people who respect truth and will not be browbeaten into submission.

Israel to date has not formulated a coherent response to this apparently just argument. Why, even G-d takes this argument seriously enough to add an entire book to the Bible for the sole purpose of refuting this argument. Rashi (Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki, the revered 11th century French who wrote a commentary on the Bible) opens his commentary on the very first words of the Torah with a question. Why the Torah begins with the account of creation when it should have begun with the first commandment given to the Jewish people as a newborn nation during the Exodus? In essence, the entire book of Genesis doesn't belong in the Torah.

He replies that G-d wanted to provide the Jewish people with a response to the international allegation that Jews stole the land of Israel from the Cannanites. The Torah begins with the story of creation to teach us that the entire universe, the heavens as well as the earth, belongs to G-d, therefore he may do with it as he pleases. The only reason G-d included the book of Genesis is to tell us that he has decided to give his Holy-Land to the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as an eternal inheritance.

Interestingly, Rashi wrote his commentary during the first Crusade period when the ******ians were battling with the Muslims over Israel!

It's not by human might that Jews came to Israel but by Divine right. Neither political prowess nor military power brought us to Israel, rather by Divine grace. Indeed ever since Joshua conquered the land from the Cannanites over 3300 years ago, there has never been an independent nation in Israel other than Jews! Whenever Israel was bereft of Jews the land shriveled up, becoming barren, inhospitable and filled with malaria infested swamps. Although we were exiled from our homeland, our bodies were sent into exile, not our souls. For thousands of years now and up until this very day, Jews all over the world, turn three times a day towards Jerusalem to pray.

On the nature of Truth

Truth is like pregnancy, just as there's no partial pregnancy, there's no partial truth. The conflict boils down to the fundamental question: Do Jews belong in Israel or not. If Jews don't belong there and are not allowed to settle in Hevron, Beit Lechem and in Gaza then surely Jews don't belong in Tel Aviv and Yafo. In that case we truly are a bunch of thieves, crooks, usurpers and bandits of the worst kind. If, however, Israel belongs to the Jewish people, than every Jew has the right and the privilege to live freely in his homeland. Jews are guests in the "royal palace" and we neither own nor control the land. We neither have the right nor the unprecedented chutzpah and audacity to give away our host's dining room and to negotiate away his bedroom!

The Arabs and the international community are waiting to hear how Jews will respond to this critical question. The moment of truth has arrived. We can't blame our problems on Arafat or on our Arab neighbors. We must have the courage to face the truth and to admit that the Intifada is our fault. "Oslo" didn't fail because of Arafat's stubbornness. Actually, it was nothing short of a miracle that Arafat said no at Camp David, thereby showing his true colors. Oslo blew up in our face because we lied, because we told the world that we really don't belong in the land of Israel.

If we are ready to give up even one percent of the land than we don't belong there at all and we must relinquish all of it. We can't have it both ways. Every proclamation by the Prime Minister that there'll be a Palestinian state is a dagger in the heart of the Jewish people. Israel is playing with fire engaging in a very dangerous game. Thousands have paid the price with their life and limb and millions continuously suffer by living in constant fear for the safety of their loved ones, with no end in sight to the horrific bloodshed and daily dose of violence.

As long as Jews are terrified to proclaim the simple truth that Israel is our home and it's not negotiable, there will never be peace in the Holy Land. It's time to tell the truth that a "Palestinian State" will never happen, not in G-d's lifetime! No one is doing the Arabs any favors by cruelly fueling false hopes that will only lead to frustration and greater disillusionment.

Israel hijacked

The wise "pragmatist" behind Oslo are the world's greatest fools. No nation on earth is powerful enough or affluent enough that it could afford to lose its soul! With a healthy soul we could survive ******; without a soul we can't survive Arafat. These pseudo intellectuals have robbed Israel of its essence, its core truth and its spirit. History will never forgive them for their stupidity. Israel has been hijacked by a small but influential group of intellectual terrorists who harbor, justify, excuse and rationalize terrorism in the worst way, who play politics with life. By not taking decisive action they have turned Israel into the greatest harbor of terrorists and suicide bombers in the world today!

No conscientious person could remain indifferent or keep silent as we witness Israel disintegrating before our very eyes. After September 11th the world has become allergic to lies, discovering that it could be hazardous to your life. Oslo and its underlying assumptions must go the way of Communism and become history.

America has been blessed with real leadership, men of character, spirit, integrity, moral clarity and truth. Will a genuine Jewish leader please step forward in Israel?

(The author is director of Chabad of the Upper East Side of Manhattan. Please e-mail him at Chabadues*********.)

* * *

This beautiful article sent out in Rabbi YY Jacobsons e-mail list, to sign up send an email to YYJacobson*********.

[Jac]

CheBreccia, I totally agree with your very moving post. Just now, I'm reading the report on the recent "attacks" on Palestinian refugee camps and how the Palestinian death toll has now reached over 1,000. The media manages to distort and portray the situation in the wrong light yet again. The helplessness of the situation frustrates and frightens me to no end. It's such an impossible situation, we're trapped whichever way we turn.

I guess the only thing we can do is care and take action.

[CheBraccia]

What amazes me most, is how numb people have become... Think back what the Rebbe use to say about the situations that were much less dangarous than they are now, and how Chabad led the battle on Shleimus Ha'aretz with the Rebbe's encouragement etc... And now when things are so much worse and there is a scary quiet... Have we excepted the situation we find ourselves in? Have we given up? Is there no hope for the Jews in Israel???

[Jude]

Just wanted to point out that contrary to what some people assume, the Rebbe was tremendously anti-Zionism. Yes, he sent shluchim there and encouraged building etc. but at the very same time the Rebbe said :

1) the establishment of the Zionist state pushed back Geula fifty years (source?)

2) if they're giving away land because of foreign pressure, better let gentiles run the Israeli govt. - at least this way, Jews won't sign to things like giving away land (said to Moshe Katzav on Yud Shevat 5752)

[CheBraccia]

Make sure you diffrenciate between the other Chassidic sects who oppose Zionism and the Rebbe's "anti-Zionism"...

Although the Rebbe was against the idea of a Zionist state (as oppose to a state abiding by Jewish law) once the state was created the Rebbe was very strong that we should participate and support it to change it to good (i.e. by elections, shleimus ha'aretz etc...)

While other Chassidic sects, support the dismantlement of Israel, and some go as far as to participate in Palastinian demonstrations calling for a full Palastinian State to replace Israel and the Jews...

Those Jews supporting the Palastinian cause, who march in their rallies holding Palastinian flags etc.., demonstrate their reckless views and lack of any Jewish feelings whatsoever... My only wish for those careless lost Jews, is that they realize their wrongdoings and return to being normal-minded caring religious Jews.

This said with sorrow of the most recent terrorist attack in Jerusalem, and with prayers for a complete recovery to all those still wounded. May G-d avenge their blood!!!

[WanderingJew]

Amen amen
i don't understand how the Neturei Karta (certain Chassidic Jews who basically, as chebraccia said , support the movement for an arab state...) are tolerated by other Jews, especially the frum world.
How can we allow such blatant sinas chinom?
their own brothers and sisters are dying-and they cheer the terrorists on...
what happened to the power of Cherem?
what happened to the Rabbonim who support these communities, and the head Orthodox Rabbis?
It boggles my mind how "religious" Jews can show such hateful behaviour...
May hashem have mercy on his children!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AD MOSAI!!!!!!!!!!!

[ChachChach]

i've seen signs in israel where certain groups of jews declare that we must all clothe ourselves in sackclothes and ashes, bc of the horrible fact that the state of israel was established. i kid you not. it boggles the mind. what are these people thinking? they live in israel, and they want to turn it over to the arabs?!?

btw.
the rebbe spoke very strongly about the fact that israel should be called "the land of israel" (eretz yisroel) not "the state of israel" (midinat yisroel).

i heard once that the rebbe said something along the lines of that israel shouldnt fight to gain more territories (or something like that), but once it already happened, and once jews gave up their lives for the land, they should NOT even think of returning it, and should cling to it with all their might.

[CheBraccia]

Once you already mentioned their name - Neturei Karta - I thought I would point something out.

We know that Pikuach Nefesh Doche Hakol - you can desecrate most commandments when it comes to saving even one life...

So even if they believe they have a rightful cause, and they have good intentiones, how dare they suggest giving the land of Eretz Yisroel to the Arabs and risk the lose of hundreds of thousands (!) of Jews G-d forbid? (just to rid Eretz Yisroel of the Zionists - who are also Jews) And these people consider themselves to be Chassidim???!!!! Chassidim of what? Maybe Chassidim of hate and idiocity!!!

I've seen a link to something very disturbing, I'll fetch it up and post it soon...

SHAME ON THEM!!!

[CheBraccia]

Okay, I found the link quite fast... (you search for Neturei Karta and you find some of the most anti-Israeli stuff you could imagine...)

http://www.inminds.com/qudsday2001.html

Check the link if you want to see "Rabbis" speaking in front of thousands of Jew-hating Palastinians at demonstrations...

If you don't have time to follow the link, than just take a look at the attached picture (worth more than a tousand words!!!)

Could be very disturbing to some...

[Jac]

It really does boggle the mind!! That picture is so disturbing!
How do these people react after such a night, when Meah Shearim itself is attacked?! The photos of the little babies brutally murdered and pieces of flesh being gathered to have a proper Jewish burial, the scared eyes of a little boy with curly peyos looking out his window at the scene of terror and horror, the infants and women being carried by rescue workers, panic-stricken children with tear streaked cheeks, old men with long white beards rescuing bodies...THIS IS CRAZY!!!!!!!! It's impossible to be dealt with! So now the Israelis are going to retaliate, and then back and forth and back, --to what end?! This is such a crazy terrible sad situation. And then we just turn back to whatever we were doing a few minutes ago and peacefully shove that info to the back of our minds. I wish there was something c-o-n-c-r-e-t-e to do!

[WanderingJew]

Chebraccia- thanks for the hair-rising picture, and for clarifying what is really going on over here.
Being informed and educated and aware!! is the least we can do.
By the way- my anxiety level has just soared.
i can't handle these atrocities any more!!
What does Hashem want from us??????????

[masbir]

Jude wrote the Rebbes name:
<<<1) the establishment of the Zionist state pushed back Geula fifty years>>>

2) if they're giving away land, better gentiles should run the govt.>>>

The first is allegedly said by the Rebbe Rayatz who was the Rebbe at the time. But its very dubious the Rebbe said it.

The second I heard from the Rebbe himself. I will look it up (BLN) and post it.

[WanderingJew]

Thanks, masbir.
we can always count on you :) ;)

[nachmans]

The 2nd the Rebbe told to Katzav in 5752.

Look in the new book "karati ve'ein 'Oney"

[Jude]

Also, that the Rebbe (or earlier Rebbe) was not referring (solely) to SECULAR Zionists, as many would think. The lashon I heard was those who believe that with the establishment of the State we have the ischalta d'Geula (which is the belief of RELIGIOUS Zionists, many of whom are living in the so-called territories), have held back the REAL Geula by fifty years. Would love a source.

As far as the previous posts, I have mixed feelings. "Zionist atrocities" is a perfect way to describe what the Zionists, particularly the secular Zionists have done. They literally tore children away from their parents (Yemenites), telling the parents their children had DIED when in reality they were GIVEN AWAY -can you believe it!?! to secular Ashkenazim to raise, ripped Yiddishkeit away from Sefardim who came from a proud, traditional background (which is why Yad L'Achim was started), sanction national chilul Shabbos, laws in support of "gay rights", allow tarfus to be raised and sold in the Holy Land etc. And on top of all that, that religious Zionists held back the Geula is an avla sh'ein kamohu, for all the suffering we've undergone in all these decades, war, illness, etc. is attributed to them.

That being said, I have to conclude that as usual, we need a schizophrenic outlook here. On the one hand condemning Zionism in all its forms, and on the other hand maintaining our Ahavas Yisrael.

I personally have never spoken to a member of the Niturei Karta to hear what they believe, why they believe it, and how they feel when they hear that Jews have been slaughtered. Some of the statements made in the posts sound just like statements Berger has made about Lubavitch!

Turning the land over to the Arabs sounds crazy except in the context of pre-State, when Jews lived in Eretz Yisrael for hundreds of years, while the country was ruled first by the Turks and then the British. This is what the N.K. want to return to. One can make a strong case for saying that the massacre in Chevron in 1929 was directly connected to the Zionists agitating for a state. Not that things were always so wonderful and peaceful with the Arabs before this agitating, but the formation of the state did not bring with it the longed for peace that Jews expected. It's just been one long war since before 1948, with a few breaks in between ... and this was NOT the case before the Zionists came on the scene.

The point is that now, once the state was established, we can't very well give it, i.e. the land, up because of the reasons the Rebbe has said: danger to life, the first Rashi etc. and so the N.K's approach, i.e. to give it up, is fallacious, but I think in concept they're in line with the Rebbeim's views of the State.

[masbir]

I dont have time to expound but I have to say that Judes harsh view is NOT consistent with the Rebbes view bc of the content and tone (yes the Rebbe was very careful what he said and when he said it).

Stop calling Nature Karta a Chasidic group (in order not be like Berger) they are considerd even by Satmar (who spawned them like elokisitin were spawned by Mashichsin) a fringe radical offbeat insane group. (I know them very well)

Thee is no question i my mind that they have the din of Mosrim and Rodfim.

Hope to explain more latter.

[CheBraccia]

Jude: Don't have much time now either, but I couldn't keep silent. So I'll make it quick.

The Netorei Karta group, as Masbir said has the din of Mosrim and Rodfim... They meet regularly with the most hateful, despicable and vile Palestinians who hate Jews in the diaspora as much as they hate Jews in Israel. I was hoping you would take a look at the link I provided, or make a search on the Internet for Neturei Karta and see what you would come up with. In case you don't have time, the following are a few short clips you may find interesting to learn a little more about this crazy fanatical (supporters of Anti-Semites and Jew-Killers) faction called the Neturei Karta:

"Neturei Karta, which believes that Zionism violates Jewish law, has a long history of backing political figures precisely because they denounce the Jewish state; Yasir Arafat has been an ally since the 1970s. The group has even called the Holocaust God's punishment for the Jewish settlement of Palestine. So, instead of playing up Farrakhan's newfound tolerance, Rabbi David Weiss told the United Center crowd that Israel was an "abomination of God." Bellowed Weiss, "We apologize for the chutzpah, the nerve of the Zionist leaders who attack the honorable Minister Farrakhan. All those who have called you an anti-Semite, let them be shamed.... All those who say they are Jews who speak ill of Mr. Farrakhan are not Jews." The old Louis Farrakhan couldn't have said it better himself. "

http://www.thenewrepublic.com/031300/pollack031300.html

Looking at the many Arab demonstrations where Neturei Karta was present, I would like to quote some of the signs I've seen them holding:

"Palestinian blood is not water"

"Give the Palestinians back their homes, their money, their land"

"Israel has no right to exist"

"Palestine belongs to the Palestinians"

Seeing all this makes me wonder, where in the Torah does it speak about loving the Arab-who-killed-your-Jewish-neighbor as yourself??? Furthermore, is their any place in the Torah that permits someone to befriend and meet with a murderer of hundreds of Jews like Yasir Arafat (Y"SH)?? Did Hashem really give the Land of Israel to the Palestinians? Is Jewish blood worth less than water??? The confiscated property and money of the Jews expelled from all Arab countries is a fair deal???

(Rabbi) David Weiss: "Jews who speak ill of Mr. Farrakhan are not Jews"!!! Unbelievable!!! And this guy calls himself a Rabbi???

Neturei Karta carries one flag, the flag of HATE!!! To say that some of their opinions vis a vis Zionism are similar to those of the Rebbe's, is one thing. But in no way, are their actions anything similar to those that any of the Rebbeim (not only of Chabad) would endorse or support!!!

Let world Jewry condemn Neturei Karta.

Some of what I said may appear a little harsh, but at times like this when fellow Jews are being murdered on a daily basis, I have no tolerance for this kind of repolsive behavior by this group.

[Jude]

<<To say that some of their opinions vis a vis Zionism are similar to those of the Rebbe's, is one thing. But in no way, are their actions anything similar to those that any of the Rebbeim (not only of Chabad) would endorse or support!!! >>

okay! But just to reiterate, as much as those settling Chevron and other "hot spots" are to be admired for their love of the Land, "religious Zionism" is a big No NO as far as the Rebbe is concerned.

[CheBraccia]

I think we all (Chabad and other religious sects) agree that Zionism/State of Israel is no form of Geula!!! I think the argument is how to react and treat the Jews/Country in it’s present form.

And that's where the Karta's went terribly wrong... I cannot admire them for a single ideology they have, after seeing their gruesome acts...

[rebayzl]

I think before you talk abot "Rodfim and mosrim" you have to acknowledge that according to these people the entire Zionist enterprise has the din of "Moridin velo Ma'alin"...

[Jude]

<<I think we all (Chabad and other religious sects) agree that Zionism/State of Israel is no form of Geula>>

I'm not so sure about that. I think people, including some Lub. look at the "settlers" with only admiration, and forget that their ideology is corrupt for they revere the "medina." I read a book a few years ago, written by one of these religious zionists. His passion and love for the Land were very impressive. It was sad though, to see how torn he was. On the one hand he was utterly shocked that his beloved govt. wasn't protecting him and his children from the Arabs, yet he still couldn't break away from his erroneous philosophy, namely that the govt. and the medina are the answer to our prayers. He actually ended up sitting in jail in E.Y. for acting in self-defense. He was out of the country when the authorities caught up with him, and he deliberately went back to E.Y., knowing he would sit in jail there, bec. better to sit in jail in the holy land than live freely outside it. His family concurred. Again, I admire the passion, but something is seriously amiss in his views, and no, not all religious Jews see it this way.

JM in the AM, a popular Jewish radio station, which plays Jewish music and has divrei Torah and other wonderful things, ends with Hatikva, the hymn of zionists, both religious and un. Those running the show are zionists, albeit frum.

[CheBraccia]

<<I think we all (Chabad and other religious sects) agree that Zionism/State of Israel is no form of Geula>>

I meant all Chassidic sects... Sorry for that.

Secondly, I can see and understand the appreciation people have toward E.Y. in it's present form eventhough it's not run in accordance to Torah/Halacha.

After the Holocaust and all the other bitter times Jews have been through in the past few decades, people are very appreciative of the fact that us - the Jews now have a country we can call our home. If G-d forbid (HL"T) something happenes in America we have a place to run to, a place we can feel safe. True there are bombs there, and terrible terrorists, but as we all know, that in times of need Jews can unite and fight for a cause all as one and with Hashems help we can preveil.

Re the specific story you brought, correct me if I'm wrong, but is there not something special with living in the land of our forefathers? Is there no inyan of Kedusha there? I'm not saying that's a reason to go to jail there instead of being free elsewhere, but all I'm saying is that there is a special quality in living in Eretz Yisroel, even under it's present state.

[masbir]

<<<< think before you talk abot "Rodfim and mosrim" you have to acknowledge that according to these people the entire Zionist enterprise has the din of "Moridin velo Ma'alin"...>>>

Who is the "enterprise"? Some abstract theory? Yossi Sarid (with ehom they are happy to bed with)? Yossi Beilin? Or Amshinover Rebbe and Gerer Rebbe. And who says that if someone mistakeny claims one has the din Moridim, he is nor a rodef, perhaps every rodef had a good reason, in his dranged zealtery mind, for anouncing that the other fellow Jew, deserves to be dead. Look up the arguements against Chasidim, they also claimed that they have the din of moridin.

[Jude]

<< is there not something special with living in the land of our forefathers?>>

but of course!
the misguided author of the book though, believes the medina and its govt. is kadosh too :(

[ChachChach]

:( :( :( :(

[CheBraccia]

I have a friend here, who collects the pictures of all Israeli victims of Arab terrorists and keeps them on his computer together with articles describing their life stories etc... That's another way to feel connected and to actually care for what's going on.

[WanderingJew]

There seems to be no end to what our people must withstand.
i almost feel like it's a Heavenly gezaira, G-d only knows what for, and as if there is nothing we can do to change things:(
I am convinced that all of our brothers and sisters living in Israel today are walking miracles- G-d's special children.

[Jude]

I received the following e-mail:
Greetings from Jerusalem. As we busy ourselves with holiday preparations, I'd like to offer a modest suggestion. So many people, young and old, have over the past year and a half entered the ranks of the injured, maimed, currently hospitalized or permanently crippled.

Perhaps one of the most important activities in which we can all engage, gathered together either around the Seder table or in synagogue (or, better yet, both), is to think of these unfortunate brothers and sisters of ours, most of whom will be spending the holiday in a hospital ward. The following is, admittedly, a woefully incomplete list of some of those who are still -- painfully, terrifyingly currently -- ailing and suffering, who could definitely "use" our prayers and our merits on their behalf. (Only names of those who are still recuperating are included, not those who have already "recovered" as much as they can be expected to recover.) Each person is identified by name and (as per our tradition, in praying for divine mercy) his/her mother's name, followed by a short description of the circumstances of injury (i.e., which terrorist attack) and whatever I know of the person's current condition.

I humbly suggest that we all take a few minutes at the Seder meal to consider this list -- even just a small part of it, if more in not feasible -- and say a prayer on behalf of these -- our -- people. You may divide the list among your friends and relatives; perhaps some people might relate better to "adopting" some specific person or persons listed here, to pray especially on their behalf. I might add that most rabbinic leaders have called upon everyone to recite Psalms -- especially Psalms 83, 130, and 142 -- on a daily basis, given our desperate situation. I think the Seder night would be a most appropriate time for those who have not yet adopted this practice to do so. As we recount and relive our liberation, we should ponder the exacting price of freedom, which some of our brothers and sisters have been called upon to pay.

I should add that, at our synagogue, the gabbai recites a "Mi SheBerach" prayer out loud on behalf of all these people every Shabbat and holiday, immediately before the "Mi SheBerach" prayer on behalf of the soldiers of the IDF. Those who complain about the time spent doing so (it might take all of five minutes, after all) should be urged to list all the important announcements made during or after the service and then decide which are more or less important than this. By the way, I sincerely feel that the most immediate beneficiaries of our praying on behalf of these people are, obviously, ourselves.

Finally, anyone who is interested in a regular update of this list (which is arranged chronologically, from the "oldest" injuries to the most recent) is welcome to contact me. Alternatively, my principal source for the list is a (free!) newsletter group to which I subscribe, managed by Avraham and Ester Silvers (whom I know only from the list). Their e-mail address is <silvers@netvision.net.il>, and the list is
<Prayers-InjuredVAT@yahoogroups.com>. I would suggest either contacting them at their e-mail address or at <Prayers-InjuredVAT-owner@yahoogroups.com>. They will be thrilled to add your address to the growing list of subscribers for this worthy endeavor.

Finally, this "grassroots" project can grow and blossom -- or wither -- depending solely on you. Please send this message to every human being of conscience -- Jew and non-Jew -- whom you know. One of the most basic axioms of our belief is that, especially together, we really can make a difference. Ultimately, this is the only antidote to despair. Thus, may we merit a happy, healthy, and truly peaceful Passover.

With very best wishes,
Chaim Eisen

P.S. Following is a description of the group, as written by the Silvers. I emphasize that you are NOT subscribed to this list. (I wouldn't subscribe anyone without his/her knowledge.) If you would like to subscribe, please contact either the Silvers or me. Immediately following the list description is the current list of the injured, reformatted for clarity by me. Since the traditional "Mi SheBerach" prayer for those who are ailing comes in two gender-specific versions, the list is divided into two section -- "MEN AND BOYS" and "WOMEN AND GIRLS." May we, by our words and above all by our actions, merit speedily the fulfillment of all our prayers. -- CE
----------------------------------------------------
Since ROSH HASHANA numbers of Jews have been injured in terrorist activities. They are mentioned in the news the first day and then we rarely hear any more about them. Many are in need of our tefilot, prayers. Here is a grassroot list of many of the victims. Included is their Hebrew names and a brief report about them and their medical condition. The plan is to update the list weekly or as needed. With everyone's prayers, we hope that soon the list will be obsolete. In the meantime we welcome everyone's help.

P.S. If you would like to learn more about the Prayers-InjuredVAT group, please visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Prayers-InjuredVAT
________________________________________
THE INJURED -- MEN AND BOYS

ARIEL ben LIA RIVKA, the baby from Atzmona who was attacked with mortar shells before last Pesach, is now half a week at Alyn Hospital in Jerusalem and half a week home. His progress is very slow, but he has begun to walk with help, B"H! Please keep praying for him.

YOSEF ben ESTHER, of Nerya (Tel Mon Bet), injured last year, has returned to himself mentally but is still paralyzed on his left side and is at Beit Levinstein.

SHLOMO ben SHLOMIT, of Nerya (Tel Mon Bet), was shot in the arm last year, causing nerve damage and pain. He is constantly on pain pills and cannot stand for prayers without suffering. He is scheduled for more surgery.

AHARON ben JANA, of Nerya (Tel Mon Bet), was injured in the jaw last year, and it is still not in the right place. Like Shlomo, he is constantly on pain medicine.

SHAI PINCUS ben DVORA MALIA is the high school student who was seriously hurt when the suicide bomber murdered two of his classmates last Mar. 28th. B"H, he has made very good physical progress, finished his operations, and has had his arm revived. Emotionally, however, he is having a very hard time. And, of course, whenever there is a terror attack, it just reopens the wounds.

SHIMON DAVID ben CHANA GITTEL was seriously injured in a drive-by shooting on Aug. 5th, when his wife was murdered. B"H, he is now home and in good spirits. He is in a wheelchair, and his house has been made wheelchair accessible.

MATANEL YECHIEL ben ORNA, age 21, who was shot in his hand in Hebron on Aug. 23rd, is improving somewhat, but his hand is far from healed. He still has surgeries ahead of him and needs our prayers to regain as much use of his hand as possible. His brother, Eliya ben Orna, is recovering from a stabbing attack in Hebron on Mar. 12th.

SHARON ben GILA was critically injured in the Dec. 1st bombings on Ben Yehuda in Jerusalem. His injuries were very serious, and he will need our prayers for a long time. He is still hospitalized.

ERAN ben SIMA, who was injured in the Dec. 1st bombings on Ben Yehuda in Jerusalem, is, B"H, improving at a steady pace, walking, and talking.

YONATAN ben BREINA, wheelchair bound because of cancer, was hit by shrapnel in the Dec. 1st bombings on Ben Yehuda in Jerusalem. B"H, he is out of the hospital and went back to physiotherapy. Now he is being treated for the injuries sustained in the attack as well as the cancer.

YISHAI ben DANIELLA was injured in the Dec. 1st bombings on Ben Yehuda in Jerusalem. He's now in a wheelchair, because he was hit by shrapnel in his legs. B"H, he has been released from the hospital and has begun his rehab.

TZVI ben BINA, from Dolev, was injured in a shooting on Dec. 9th. He has movement in his whole body but is in a wheelchair. B"H, he is home and undergoing rehab.

CHAIM ben ALYSSA, who was injured in the bus attack in Emanuel on Dec. 12th, had his toes removed and then suffered a heart attack following the operation. He is a widower with several children. He is still in a coma.

ELIEZER CHAIM ben DVORA, a plumber from Emanuel who was injured in the attack there on Dec. 12th, is now an outpatient undergoing therapy. It was thought that his arm would have to be amputated, but, B"H, he has regained feeling in his fingers.

YOSEF YEHUDA ben SULTANA, who was injured in the bus attack in Emanuel on Dec. 12th, is, B"H, now home and undergoing therapy as an outpatient.

BOAZ ben YEFET, from Ateret, was shot near the entrance to his village on Dec. 17th. B"H, he is now home and undergoing therapy. The metal brace is off his hand, but he still has no feeling in his hand and is unable to move his fingers. He is waiting for a special glove to help him use his hand.

MOSHE ben REMUND, a 47-year-old man from Safed who was shot in the stomach and the back on Feb. 5th, had an infection, so he is still in the hospital.

HILLEL NOACH ben SHULAMIT RIVKA, a young man in his late twenties who was injured in the Feb. 16th terror attack in Karnei Shomron, was in Beit Levinstein, undergoing rehab. However, he developed an unexplained high fever and was returned to the hospital. He still has a long way to go to a complete recovery.

SHABBTAI ben RIVKA was seriously injured in the Feb. 16th terror attack in Karnei Shomron. He is still in the ICU.

LIOR PINCHAS ben GITTEL CHAYA was injured in the Feb. 16th terror attack in Karnei Shomron. He is in moderate to serious condition and, B"H, is recuperating from his several surgeries. He has been moved from the ICU to a regular pediatric surgery floor.

AVRAHAM ben TAMAR was injured in the Feb. 16th terror attack in Karnei Shomron.

OHAD ben RUT was injured in the Feb. 16th terror attack in Karnei Shomron.

BARUCH ben SARA BRACHA was injured in the Feb. 16th terror attack in Karnei Shomron.

YOSEF ben CHAVIVA was injured in the Feb. 16th terror attack in Karnei Shomron.

MOSHE ben SHOSHANA was injured in the Feb. 18th terror attack at the Kisufim crossing in Gush Katif, while attempting to neutralize the terrorist who began shooting passing motorists. B"H, he is home from Seroka Hospital in Be'er Sheva, recuperating from injuries in his hand and leg.

MORDECHAI SHLOMO ben ORIT MALKA, a 16-year-old from Hebron, was shot on his way to yeshivah on Feb. 25th. The bullet went in his back and out his stomach, missing vital organs, and, B"H, his prognosis is good. He came through surgery well but still needs a couple more weeks of our prayers. His brother was injured similarly earlier this year.

ADAM REFAEL ben MALKA is a policeman injured in the Feb. 25th terror attack in Neve Ya'akov in Jerusalem. He was wounded in both legs, with damage done to major arteries in both legs. He is still in serious condition but, B"H, is no longer comatose and is no longer in the ICU.

AMICHAI ben CHANA CHAYA is a policeman injured in the Feb. 25th terror attack in Neve Ya'akov in Jerusalem. He was moderately to seriously injured and is in Hadassah Ein Kerem.

ELI ben DAHLIA, a 16-year-old from Rishon LeZion, was injured in the Mar. 2nd terror attack in Beit Yisrael in Jerusalem, when his 15-year- old brother Shaul was killed. He is still in a coma in the ICU.

SHLOMO ben MIRIAM was injured in the Mar. 2nd terror attack in Beit Yisrael in Jerusalem. He is still in the ICU, but conscious. His hand was amputated.

YEHUDA ben ITZEL, a young teenager, was injured in the Mar. 2nd terror attack in Beit Yisrael in Jerusalem. B"H, he is now conscious and off the respirator, but is still hospitalized.

MENACHEM MONIS ben NECHEMYA, a young boy, was injured in the Mar. 2nd terror attack in Beit Yisrael in Jerusalem. B"H, he was released from the hospital and is receiving his burn treatments at home.

AVIGDOR ben RUT RACHEL, who was shot four times in the chest in the Mar. 3rd terror attack in Wadi Charmiya near Ofra, is making miraculous improvements. B"H, he was released from the hospital and has a good prognosis but is very weak. The doctors are not sure if he will regain his voice, but everyone is so thankful for the miracles that he has had.

AVIAD ben VICTORIA, an 18-year-old, was injured in the Mar. 7th terror attack at the yeshivah in Atzmona. He has a bullet in his lung and is also injured in the spleen, hands, and feet. B"H, he is out of the ICU.

URI ben NOA was injured in the Mar. 7th terror attack at the yeshivah in Atzmona. He has shrapnel in the hip and 60% paralysis in the nerves in the foot. B"H, he is home and undergoing rehab.

ELI ben JOANN was injured in the Mar. 7th terror attack at the yeshivah in Atzmona. B"H, he was released from the hospital.

ELAD ben TZIPPORA, an 18-year-old, was injured in the Mar. 7th terror attack at the yeshivah in Atzmona. He was injured in the chest and is connected to all sorts of tubes. B"H, he was released from the hospital.

ASAF YOSEF ben BETA YAFFA was injured in the Mar. 7th terror attack at the yeshivah in Atzmona. A bullet penetrated his chest and stopped in his spinal cord. He has more operations ahead of him. B"H, he was released from the hospital.

YAKOV ben RUCHAMA was injured in the Mar. 7th terror attack at the yeshivah in Atzmona. He has shrapnel in his hand, leg, and chest. B"H, he was released from the hospital.

NATANEL ben SHOSHANA, a 19-year-old from Neve Tzuf, was injured in the Mar. 7th terror attack at the yeshivah in Atzmona and is listed in serious condition. B"H, he was released from the hospital.

AMOS ben ESTHER was injured in the Mar. 7th terror attack at the yeshivah in Atzmona. A bullet entered through his back and came out his stomach, and he had his spleen removed.

AMIR ben SHOSHANA was injured in the Mar. 7th terror attack at the yeshivah in Atzmona. He underwent surgery for shrapnel in his hand. B"H, he was released from the hospital.

RON ben ELLA, an 18-year-old, was injured in the Mar. 7th terror attack at the yeshivah in Atzmona. He has burns on his hands and internal shrapnel. B"H, he was released from the hospital.

RON SIMCHA ben BATYA was injured in the Mar. 7th terror attack at the yeshivah in Atzmona. He had half of his foot amputated in an attempt to save the rest. He is still hospitalized.

SHIYA ben TIKVA, an 18-year-old, was injured in the Mar. 7th terror attack at the yeshivah in Atzmona. He has an open break in the toe, and partial paralysis is suspected. B"H, he is home and undergoing rehab.

MICHAEL MISAEL ben RUCHAMA was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack on the boardwalk in Netanya, when his baby was murdered. He is still in serious condition.

SHIMON ben SIMCHA was moderately injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack on the boardwalk in Netanya. He is still hospitalized.

SHLOMO ben GERZEL, from Chashmonaim, was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack on the boardwalk in Netanya. His right hand and his right foot were amputated.

YECHIEL ben REUMA was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack on the boardwalk in Netanya. B"H, he is home and undergoing rehab.

DORON ben SHULA was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

YOSSI ben MERCEDES was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

MAIMON ben FANNY was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

MORDECHAI ben SARA was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

SINAI ben SHOSHANA was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

PERI ben SARA was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

ROI ben DVORA was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

SHELLEY ben SHOSHANA was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

HAGGAI ben LEAH, rosh yeshivah of Kinor David and father of a large family in Eli, was injured in the drive-by shooting on Mar. 10th. He was hit in the stomach and thigh and is listed in moderate to serious condition. B"H, he is out of the ICU and has passed several surgeries.

ELIYA AVRAHAM ben ORNA, a teenager, was stabbed in Hebron on Mar. 12th and is in moderate condition. Although he is improving, there is still no conclusion regarding when he'll be released from the hospital. His brother, Matanel Yechiel ben Orna, is still recovering from a shooting attack in Hebron on Aug. 23rd.
-----------------------------------------------------------
THE INJURED -- WOMEN AND GIRLS

NOA bat ILANA, who was seriously injured when the Arab bus driver rammed into her and other soldiers at the bus stop last year, remains the same, with brain damage causing her memory loss. She needs our prayers!

TZIPPORA bat TECHIYA, age 14, was seriously injured in a drive-by shooting on Aug. 5th, when her mother was murdered. She suffered a spinal injury and is now in rehab and will be in the hospital for quite some time and needs our prayers.

CHANA TOVA CHAYA bat PESHA, the 31-year-old Modi'in resident who was seriously injured in the Sbarro bomb blast, is still unconscious and in need of a major miracle.

SHIMRIT bat CHEMDA, who was shot in a drive-by shooting on Nov. 27th, had another blockage of her stomach about two weeks ago, and was taken back to the hospital and underwent another operation. B"H, she's been released from the hospital and now home is in the family's rented apartment in Netanya. She is still afraid to return home and has developed many fears due to the trauma of what happened; she's afraid of sitting near a window, going in a car, etc.

CHANA bat NAOMI LEAH, the young woman from Kfar Darom who was shot on Nov. 27th in a drive-by, is paralyzed from the waist down. She should be coming home this week. B"H, she finished her rehab in the hospital and will begin her outpatient rehab.

ADI bat MOLLY was moderately to seriously injured in the Dec. 1st bombings on Ben Yehuda in Jerusalem. She is improving but is still hospitalized and has a long rehab ahead of her.

SHIRA bat YAFFA, a girl from Einav, was injured in the Feb. 16th terror attack in Karnei Shomron. She had a nail lodged in her heart, which the doctors were able to remove. B"H, she is now carrying on conversation. Although still in the ICU, she is recuperating from the surgery that removed the nail from her heart.

REUT bat ZMIRA, a teenager, was injured in the Feb. 16th terror attack in Karnei Shomron. She has shrapnel all over her body and is in moderate condition.

VERED bat JACQUELINE was injured in the Feb. 16th terror attack in Karnei Shomron.

YARDEN bat LINDA was injured in the Feb. 16th terror attack in Karnei Shomron.

MORIA bat LEAH was injured in the Feb. 16th terror attack in Karnei Shomron.

BAT-EL bat ETTY was injured in the Mar. 2nd terror attack in Beit Yisrael in Jerusalem.

RACHEL bat CHANA was injured in the Mar. 2nd terror attack in Beit Yisrael in Jerusalem. She is recovering from burns on her legs, feet and hands.

NATALIE bat RACHEL was injured in the Mar. 2nd terror attack in Beit Yisrael in Jerusalem. B"H, she is being released from the hospital.

RACHEL DINA GILA bat CHAYA was injured in the Mar. 2nd terror attack in Beit Yisrael in Jerusalem.

AYALA bat ESTHER was moderately injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack on the boardwalk in Netanya. B"H, she is home and undergoing rehab.

HALLEL bat AYALA was moderately injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack on the boardwalk in Netanya. B"H, she is home and undergoing rehab.

CHANA bat ZAHAVA was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack on the boardwalk in Netanya.

YEHUDIT bat YONA was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack on the boardwalk in Netanya.

SIGAL bat NAOMI, a young mother from Emanuel, was moderately injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack on the boardwalk in Netanya, when two of her children were also injured. B"H, she is home and undergoing rehab.

HADASSAH bat SIGAL was lightly injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack on the boardwalk in Netanya and cannot step on her foot. B"H, she is home and undergoing rehab.

ORIT bat MIRIAM was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

IRIT bat LEAH was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

HILA bat MIRIAM was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

ZIVA bat NECHAMA was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

MEITAL bat TIKVA was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

MICHAL bat DINA was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

SHARONNE bat YAFFA was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

SHARONNA bat ESTHER was injured in the Mar. 9th terror attack at the Moment Cafe in Jerusalem.

[Jude]

from an e-mail I received:

Anyway, like you know, I'm on the anti-terror rapid response team here in the Yishuv. Our job is basically to be a first and fast line of defense in an emergency and basically to "buy time" until the army or police arrive. Then, whe they get here, we go under their command and do what they tell us. Saturday night, we were the first ones to respond. within 5 minutes of the blast, we were all there. After the
> > > army took over, they told us to patrol the yishuv and get everyone
> > > into their homes. They were afraid of an infiltration and wanted the
> > > streets clear so they could search the yishuv in an orderly way. After
> > > that, we were doing patrols on the security roads all night.
> > >
> > > Now here's the problem. Even though we are a first line of defense,
> > > and even though we are all volunteers, and even though we are helping
> > > out the army.... we only get limited supplies from the IDF (M16s and
> > > ammunition). Absurd, huh! Actually, ITS CRAZY! So we have decided
> > > that
> > > we are NOT going to put out lives ONLY in their hands, but will take
> > > responsibility for equipping ourselves with the things that are
> > > needed. The 3 most important things are normal walkie-talkies with a 7
> > > kilometer radius. They model is Motorola XTN with a PTT microphone.
> > > they cost $200 each and we need 20 of them. The second thing is 20
> > > MAG-BEAM rechargable torches (flashlights). They cost $40 and we
> > > need
> > > 20. The third are Trauma kits for first aid in a terrorist attack.
> > > They cost $500 each and we need 3 of them. I've written below the
> > > list of equiptment that we need to be able to be an effective response
> > > team. Any help you can give us in raising money for these things is a
> > > mitzvah beyond anything I can imagine. I ONLY HOPE WE NEVER
> > > HAVE TO USE THEM.
> > >
> > > 1- Walkie-talkie : Motorola XTN $200 * 20 = $4000
> > >
> > > 2- MAG torches: $40 * 20= $800
> > >
> > > 3- Trauma Kits: $500 * 3= $1500
> > >
> > > 4- Night vision equiptment: total $1000
> > >
> > > 5- Rotating Strobe lights for the emergency vehicles: $45 * 20=$900
> > >
> > > 6-Megaphones: $100*2= $200
> > >
> > > 7- Rifle Scopes: $500 * 20= $10,000
> > >
> > > 8-Lock-boxes for M16 Rifles: $180*20= $3600
> > >
> > > 9- bullet proof vests: $1000*12= $12,000
> > >
> > > And finally, we are going to try to raise $80,000 to buy an armored,
> > > bullet proof jeep for patrols.
> > >
> > > I know that i have listed $34,000 worth of equipment (not counting
> > > the jeep), and we dont expect it all to come from one source, but we
> > > have paid a price this week that NO ONE should ever have to pay. We
> > > have buried our children and we are going to make sure that we are
> > > prepared to protect ourselves. I know that we cant ever guarantee
> > > that we can stop everything, but at least we can make sure that we
> > > don't mess up because we didn't have the things we need to do it
> > > right!"
> > >
> > > As if this wasn't enough, last night (Tuesday evening) at 8:00 PM, we
> > > received a priority alert from the police that an armed terrorist was
> > > on his was to our yishuv. As you can imagine, rumors and panic spread
> > > very quickly around the yishuv, and our unit was immediately called up
> > > to start patrolling on high alert. Our commander had to go to the
> > > Shatzky's home where they are sitting shiva for their daughter Keren,
> > > killed
> > > on Saturday night to get Mr. Shatzky's M16 so we could give it to
> > > another volunteer on patrol. (Mr. Shatzky was one of the volunteers
> > > on Saturday night, all the while helping others without even knowing
> > > his daughter had been killed!)
> > >
> > > Thank God the alert was cancelled around 9:30 PM by the IDF -- an
> > > undercover IDF unit killed a terrorist in Azzun which is only a few
> > > minutes walk from our yishuv.
> > >
> > > We have already setup an emergency method to raise money for this
> > > equipment - in a way that will give everyone a proper receipt.
> > > Donations should be made payable to:
> > >
> > > CBY-Rabbi's Discretionary Fund
> > >
> > > and mailed to:
> > >
> > > Karnei Shomron Emergency Fund
> > > 342 Grant Avenue
> > > Woodmere, NY 11598
> > > USA
> > >
> > > On the memo part of the check, write: "Karnei Shomron Emergency
> > > Fund". (The donations will be recorded and forwarded to Rabbi Steven
> > > Pruzansky at Congregation Bnai Yeshurun in Teaneck , N J who has so
> > > kindly and willingly offered to help us in this effort.)
> > >
> > > One of the team leaders is a former congregant of the Rabbi who is a
> > > strong supporter of YESHA. He will send out receipts to everyone --
> > > we will, with God's help, be able to purchase the equipment that can
> > > be bought in the States, and the rest of the money will be forwarded
> > > to us to buy what we need here.
> > >
> > > If you have any questions or want more information, about donations,
> > > please contact me (contact info is at the bottom of this message). If
> you
> > > have questions about the equipment needed or if you want to know what
> > > else you can do to help, please contact Yossi Klavan, Coordinator,
Ginot
> > > Shomron Kitat Konenut/Anti-Terror Rapid Response Unit, Ginot
> > > Shomron, Karnei Shomron (<yklavan@ndsisrael.com>, home: 972-9-
> > > 7920413, mobile: 972-55-664793).
> > >
> > > I only hope that we never have another reason to use this equipment
> > > and that the lives we lost this week will be the last.
> > >
> > > Thank you in advance for whatever help you can give. Please forward
> > > this to anyone else who might be able to help.
> > >
> > > May we hear only good news from one another,
> > > Leah
> > >
> > > ======================
> > > Leah Kochanowitz
> > > imaof8@inter.net.il
> > > icq # 685-2514
> > > home: 972-9-792-9933
> > > cellphone 972-51-211916

[Jac]

Thanks for posting that, Jude. It is crazy, horrific, and insane. These past few days have been one long pesach massacre. The whole world is turning upside down, it just doesn't make sense. Thanks for giving us something constructive to do, alleviating a bit of the frustration we feel at sitting here so far away, going on with our daily lives with the occasional sigh and crease of the forehead in concern for our brothers and sisters in Israel.

Hashem should have mercy and redeem us from this golus right now!

[Jude]

PeaceinIsrael - you may have known this, but I didn't.
I came across the phrase you sign off with in Yechezkel recently. In13:10 and 13:16 it says, "sholom, v'ein sholom.

[PeaceInIsrael]

BH

Jude, I was aware of the fact that it was quoted from Novi but I wasnt sure exactly where. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Since you bring it up, I might as well tell you where I got the exact quote from.
I did not take my quote directly from the Novi.

I took it from a book called "Shalom, Shalom, Vein Shalom" written by Rabbi S. B. Volpe.
Although the book was written in 1982 (if i remember correctly)
Its all true today.

Its a brilliant piece of work and very informative.
He talks about the Rebbe's position and nevuos regarding the Camp David Accords which took place in the late 70s and finalized in the early 80s.

He brings in the halachik problems with giving land for peace, the Rebbe's nevuos that no one listened to and the consequential effect it had on Israel and worldwide Jewry.


"Maduah bosi ve'ain ish, korosi ve'ain oneh"
-yeshaya hanovi
If everyone would have listened to the Rebbe then, we wouldn't be in the situation that we are in today.

The Rebbe begged them not to give away one inch of Eretz Yisroel for a so called peace. During Camp David, they were negotiating Sinai. A big desert. This "big desert" almost doubled Israels size and served as an unbelievable buffer zone between Israel and Egypt. It also had many oil wells and even some Jewish towns (i.e. Yamit)
This land wasnt even Eretz Yisroel al pi torah. Yet the Rebbe fought for it until it was too late.

Today Shechem, Chevron etc etc is History.
Now they want Yerushalayim.

When the Rebbe said these words so many years ago no one could of ever imagined..
"what yerushalayim? it will never happen!"

And now Arafat calls Jerusalem the Capital of Palestine.

----------------------

Jews in Israel (and around the world) are in terrible danger.
Many of us feel helpless and hopeless, thinking what can we do.
We might be unable to physically fight the war or prevent tradgedies from happening. But besides for the war going on in Israel, there is another war going on. A war in the media, and yes, there is something we can do about it. This is not about politics. This is about pekuach nefesh. We cant sit silently in America while our brothers in Israel are dying. The media portrays Israel in horrible ways. Europe now wants to impose sanctions on Israel. Arab countries want to prosecute them for war crime. The worlds view of Israel is terribly distorted.

Be informed dont believe everything you hear and read.
Speak out and at least know the truth.
Its the least least we can do.

Lets share the Rebbe's views with the world. Lets not keep it to ourselves!

With prayers for the immediate redemption,
PeaceInIsrael

[masbir]

<<<I came across the phrase you sign off with in Yechezkel recently>>.

The precise phrase is actually from Yermiyauh 6:14 8:11 (in Yechezkel it uses only one Sholem in Yermiyauh it uses twice.)

[Jude]

aha! thanks Masbir! I was wondering why it was quoted with shalom, shalom when the pasuk said it only once! now I know ...

[noahidelaws]

BS"D From an e-mail I received:

I wanted to share some of my thoughts being called up in
the emergency giyus-zav Shemoneh of last week and being part of
Israel's war against terrorism. My experience was probably typical of many
but left a very deep impression on me about life here in Israel at this
time.

Friday, 29 April, the second day of Chol Hamoed, began quite normally in the
Kohn household. After shopping in our local Ramla supermarket I receive at
lunchtime a phone call-is Kohn Elliott at home? Knowing that I remain only
Elliott in Zahal, I know its the army! You have an emergency call up -I'm in
your neighborhood sign the paper and be in the Ramla school in one hour with
your clothes. How long will I be out? Where will I be sent? It's a war I'm
told -no one knows anything yet.

And so I make my way to join that Friday afternoon two thousand other
reserve paratroopers in our homebase in Petah Tiqva. I arrive one hour
before Shabbat, -how many fellow soldiers answered the emergency call? I
speak to the officer in charge of the call up -so far 95% of the unit have
come-all within three hours-incredible! We have a problem, he tells me, we
have whole groups of volunteers who left the unit years ago-some in their
fifties- they won't go home!! We don't have enough room in the armed
personnel carriers for them!

As Shabbat begins groups of soldiers form minyanim in the huge square which
is to be home for the next three days. Without a word being said, we
gravitate to the middle of the square -some three hundred soldiers who feel
instinctively that we need to daven together. The spirit and kavana of that
Lecha Dodi is hard to describe-the prayers of those who are about to go to
war.

Assigned to the military chaplaincy in the unit I am responsible for the
organization of tephilot, kashrut shiurim etc. We find bottles of wine for
kiddush, Matzot and war rations for the Shabbat meal. The highest ranking
Rav paskens that tuna can be eaten without the oil-we can be lenient on
problems of kitniyot in our situation.

As we find a place to sleep on the sand in the hanger -I start speaking to
Chaim sitting next to me. "See this" he says, this is a ticket to Italy-I
was meant to go tomorrow on a family holiday but I was called up. "Ma Lasot"
he says, "we have to defend ourselves, we cannot let them continue
butchering us." Many of us feel the same way. They sadly don't want to make
peace with us- they want to make pieces of us. Next day Shabbat, we still
don't know where we are going. We spend the day in the shooting range, the
first time in my life that I'm breaking Shabbat. A very strange feeling but
you know its Pikuach Nefesh -this is a war and we have to be ready and
prepared. In the afternoon, we have an hour free. I take out Hilchot
Melachim of the Rambam to study Hilchot Milchama. A few soldiers join me -a
couple of non religious soldiers too. We learn that we are about to take
part in a milchemet mitzva-as the Rambam in Hilchot Melachim Perek 5
says-saving your fellow Jew from an enemy is in this category. Can there be
a milchemet mitzva greater than this-after the bombings in Netanya,
Yerushalayim, Haifa and Tel Aviv? I think of the Rambam who wrote this a
thousand years ago, with no Jewish State and no Jewish Army. I think of the
Holocaust over fifty year ago with no Jewish State and no Jewish Army. These
halachot were meaningless then. I am privileged to be in a Jewish State with
a Jewish Army about to defend its citizens-Shecheyanu vekeymanu lazman haze.

Shabbat is ending and we are told that are Battalion commander will speak
to us all at 11pm. Tension in the group rises. I look at the five hundred or
so paratroopers in our hanger. Each one has families, most are married with
children between the ages of 25 and forty. All are reservists. They all know
that wherever they will be going they will be in danger-yet they are all
there, religious and non religious, ashkenazim and sephardim -all part of Am
Yisrael motivated to defend their fellow Jews. How wrong are all those
soothsayers who describe the decline of our people-Am Yisrael Chai
Vekayam-our people are kedoshim, far greater than those who lead them. At
11pm our battalion commander speaks-we are to conquer Tulkarem.

The mission -to destroy the terrorist framework that has been set up there.
He is very clear about the targets -those who have arms and who try to kill
us. We must not injure men women and children who are not involved in the
terror-we must not lose our Zelem Enosh-our respect for innocent human life
he tells us. A tear runs down my cheek, what an army, what a wonderful
people I belong too!! Imagine if the roles were reversed -would the Arabs
have such sympathy for our own civilians or would they kill them first? I
leave the question unanswered.

On Sunday night our unit leaves for Tulkarem. As of today many of them are
still there searching from house to house to find terrorists and weapons.
I, Baruch Hashem have returned home safely. As I think of the last week, the
people I met, the experiences I had, I leave with a great sense of optimism
for the future. Despite all the tragedies we have suffered over the last
months we are a strong, proud people who will survive whatever our enemies
throw at us. We pray that Hashem will look after His Hayalim Kedoshim and
bring them back safely home -Bekarov.
Kol Tuv
Eli
Rabbi Eli Kohn
Director of Curriculum Development Projects
The Lookstein Center, Bar-Ilan University
Tel: 972-3-5318199, 9723-5354980 Fax: 972-3-5351912

[Jude]

moving piece
<tzelem enosh>??? hmmm I always thought it was a tzelem Elokim ...

[rebayzl]

Originally posted by Jude
moving piece
<tzelem enosh>??? hmmm I always thought it was a tzelem Elokim ...

Where you ever in Israel?! It means Human as opposed to animal.

Tzelem Elokim is used to explain why the OTHER should be treated well, because HE has a Tzelem Elokim. But for YOU to behave in a HUMANE way you have to have Tzelem Enosh.

[Jude]

In Israel? Yes, many times.
Thanks for the interpretation.. I kind of figured out what was meant all by myself.
My point is, the phrase IS "tzelem ELOKIM" and unless there's another good reason for it, it seems to me that the "Elokim" is dropped and a new phrase invented, for the same reason G-d is not mentioned in Ha'tikva. You know ... let's just keep Him out of it ...

There are stories in which animals (for ex. lions) were afraid of tzaddikim (Daniel, R' Avrohom Galanti, R' Ariel), because these tzadikim had retained their tzelem Elokim, i.e. their humanity, as is explained in sefarim.

[noahidelaws]

BS"D True, "tzelem Elokim" could refer to the person's "humanity" i.e. the nefesh ha'sichlis (intellectual soul). But it is clear that in the context of the sources you just quoted, it refers to the nefesh ho'eloikis (the Divine soul). See Tanya ch. 24.

[Jude]

List of actions that you can take to help Israel and Israelis.

1) www.walk4israel.com supports victims of terror.
2) www.shopinisrael.com ,www.shop4israel.com, and www.israeldirect.com
Gives worldwide Jewry the opportunity to shop in Israel.
3) Join MID-PAC, a very effective pro-Israel lobbying group, by
contacting midpac* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * .
4) A Package from Home (www.apackagefromhome.org) sends packages to
front line soldiers in Israel.
5) www.fly-a-cake.com sends gift baskets to hospitalized victims of
terror all over Israel.
6) www.helpingisrael.com A public service news, information and crisis
center that provides a means to directly assist the people of Israel in
times of national emergency.
7) Your Guide to Israeli Internet (www.iguide.co.il) is a search engine
dedicated to Israeli web sites. Use this site to find Florists, Judaica
and all things Israeli.
8) www.judaicawebstore.com is an online emporium for Judaica, beauty
products (including Ahava and Sea Beauty), etc. www.judaica.org.il is
another such site located in Gush Etzion.
9) www.mnmrose.com/price.html M and M Roses - Roses direct from
Israel.
10) www.mr-t.co.il Israel Army-Navy store: T-shirts, kippot, army
supplies, pins, insignias, etc. This store, loved by all Israel summer
tour participants, is located on Ben Yehuda Street in Jerusalem.
11) www.aipac.org offers a very easy way to generate letters and
e-mails to various people in political life in support of Israel.
12) Check an online Israeli newspaper at least once every day. Try the
Jerusalem Post at www.jpost.com or Arutz-7 at www.israelnationalnews.com.
13) Subscribe to any number of media watch organizations such as Debka
(www.debka.com) or Camera (www.camera.org) or Palestinian Media Watch
(pmw@pmw.org.il) or Memri (www.memri.org) or Honest Reporting
(www.honestreporting.com) or Israel Resources News Agency
(media@actcom.co.il).

[Jude]

Dick Armey, congressman from Texas was quoted as saying the following:

On the eve of the vote, the House majority leader, Dick Armey of Texas, endorsed a position flatly at odds with the precepts of the Oslo peace process. "I'm content to have Israel grab the entire West Bank, he said in an appearance on MSNBC's "Hardball with Chris Matthews." He added under questioning, "I happen to believe that the Palestinians should leave." Hours later he tried to soften his remarks, saying he simply meant that Palestinians who supported terrorism should be exiled.

YOU MUST CALL DICK ARMEY'S OFFICE TODAY AND TELL THEM THAT YOU AGREE WITH ARMEY AND YOU APPRECIATE HIS POSITION. i called today and they thanked me and sounded surprised at my comments. i chatted with the person who answered and he said that they are getting some positive response but mostly loud vocal negatives. if armey is sharply rebuked, he and others will soften their pro Israel position and we must do what we can to prevent that. be sure to call today. you must make this phone call. the numbers are 202-225-7772 or 972-556-2500.

Please do not be apathetic about things like this - you must call armey's office.

[Jude]

Are you tired of terrorists getting away with murder??

Did you know that when suicide bombers blow up pizzerias and
discotheques in Israel, the media refuses to call them "terrorists"??

Instead, the media calls them "militants," "activists," or even "freedom fighters."

That's crazy!

Who is the media trying to protect??

We need to identify these terrorists now, in case they come to our country next!

We need to tell the media: "When it's terror, CALL IT TERROR."

Sign the petition at http://terrorpetition.com and get the media to fix this outrageous policy.

It takes less than 10 seconds to sign the petition. Our freedom and security is at stake!

The petition will be presented to the editors and executives of media outlets worldwide:

ABC News
Albany Times Union
> Albuquerque Journal
> Anchorage Daily News
> Arkansas Democrat-Gazette
> Associated Press
> Atlanta Journal-Constitution
> Austin American-Statesman
> Baltimore Sun
> Birmingham (AL) News
> Birmingham News
> Boston Globe
> Boston Herald
> Buffalo News
> Burlington Free Press
> CBS News
> Charleston Post & Courier
> Charlotte (NC) Observer
> Chicago Sun-Times
> Chicago Tribune
> ******ian Science Monitor
> Cincinnati Enquirer
> Cincinnati Post
> Cleveland Plain Dealer
> CNN
> Columbus Dispatch
> Dallas Morning News
> Denver Post
> Des Moines Register
> Detroit Free Press
> Detroit News
> Fargo (ND) Forum
> Financial Times
> Fort Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel
> Fort Worth Star-Telegram
> Fox News
> Hartford Courant
> Houston Chronicle
> Idaho Statesman
> Indianapolis Star
> Kansas City Star
> Las Vegas Review-Journal
> Los Angeles Times
> Louisville Courier-Journal
> Memphis Commercial-Appeal
> Miami Herald
> Milwaukee Journal Sentinal
> Minneapolis Star Tribune
> MSNBC
> NBC News
> New Orleans Times-Picayune
> New York Daily News
> New York News
> New York Post
> New York Sun
> New York Times
> Newark Star Ledger
> Newsday
> Newsweek
> NPR - National Public Radio
> Oakland Tribune
> Orange County Register
> Orlando Sentinel
> PBS - Public Broadcasting
> Philadelphia Daily News
> Philadelphia Inquirer
> Phoenix Arizona Republic
> Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
> Portland (Maine) Press Herald
> Portland Oregonian
> Providence Journal-Bulletin
> Reuters
> Richmond Times-Dispatch
> Rochester Democrat & Chronicle
> Rocky Mountain News
> Sacramento Bee
> Salt Lake Tribune
> San Antonio Express-News
> San Diego Union-Tribune
> San Francisco Chronicle
> San Jose Mercury News
> Seattle Post-Intelligencer
> Seattle Times
> St. Louis Post-Dispatch
> St. Petersburg (FL) Times
> Tallahassee Democrat
> Tampa Tribune
> Time Magazine
> Toledo Blade
> U.S. News and World Report
> USA Today
> Village Voice
> Wall Street Journal
> Washington Post
> Washington Times
> Wilmington News Journal
>
> CANADA:
> CBC - Canadian Broadcasting
> Calgary Herald
> Edmonton Journal
> Halifax Daily News
> Hamilton Spectator
> London Free Press
> Montreal Gazette
> Ottawa Citizen
> Toronto Globe and Mail
> Toronto Star
> Toronto Sun
> Vancouver Sun
> Winnipeg Free Press
>
> UK:
> BBC News
> Daily Mail
> Daily Mirror
> Daily Star
> Daily Telegraph
> The Guardian
> The Independent
> The Sun
> The Times
>
>
> MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD! SIGN THE PETITION AT:

> http://terrorpetition.com

AND DEMAND THAT THE MEDIA CHANGE THEIR OUTRAGEOUS POLICY!"

[noahidelaws]

BS"D Here is something someone forwarded to me re message to gentile world:

I think we have to spell out how America is betraying Israel and stands to lose its brocha of hatzlocha, which could lead to what you quoted, because of this stand. I.e., this should be THE ISSUE in all american elections now - will you as Congressman, Senator, etc., stop the funding of the PLO and stop demanding that Israel not arrest all 100,000 PLO members/employees and their 10,000 or so affiliates in I.J. and Hamas.

If there was a 100,000 person group in America setting up on the sides of highways and shooting at Jews, and America decided to arrest 1,000 of them but not touch the other 99,000, Jews would be calling this an anti-semitic gov't. The israeli gov't is anti-semitic and is being given cover from charges of treason by its citizenry by America's support for this treasonous action.

[ChachChach]

Israel and the Battered Woman
By Dr. Miriam Adahan


In years to come, historians will be shocked at how Israeli leaders happily encouraged a gang of Arab murderers to create a country within our tiny borders -- a country which never existed before -- and gave them arms knowing that those arms could be used to kill and maim us, and then continued to try to appease the murderers. Why are we fulfilling ******'s dream? Why did we ignore Arafat's rhetoric calling for our destruction, ignore the fact that they were flooding their cities with arms, and ignore the warnings that they are preparing for all-out war?

Having worked with battered women for most of my life, I see a similarity in the mentality of these women who are so hungry for love, who search so desperately for any signs of it, because the truth is unbearable. Want to understand what happened here in Israel? Listen to the battered woman:

1. "It takes two to make a fight. So I must deserve this abuse -- after all, I'm not perfect either. I left dishes in the sink, was talking on the phone when he came home and didn't have dinner ready on time. Sometimes, I was a little confused after he beat me up and didn't function so well. These sins of mine are so enormous that whatever he does is justified. I should have done better, should have known, should have anticipated...." (Israel: "As penance for not being perfect, we must allow them to continue murdering us.")

2. "If he's so angry, it means that I'm to blame. People don't get angry about nothing. It must be that I haven't done enough to please him. If I just try harder, I'm sure I'll eventually win his love." (Israel: "We must keep making more concessions. We're the more enlightened country, so we have to keep trying harder to get them to become more democratic, more humane, more civilized.")

3. "No matter how badly he acts at times, I truly believe that he doesn't really mean to hurt me and that he really does love me underneath it all. He just has to act like this to prove his masculinity. It doesn't really mean anything, because underneath it all, there's a good man." (Israel: "No matter how many of us he kills, Arafat is our partner. The fact that he keeps wanting to talk is proof of his love, isn't it? Otherwise, why would he take the time to talk to us?")

4. "I'm proud of myself for being loyal and determined! I stand by my man through thick and thin. You don't leave during the bad times. When you're willing to forgive after getting beaten up, that's when you prove how strong your love is." (Israel: "We take pride in the fact that we are the ones who care more about peace, and keep negotiating even when we're under attack. Hey world! Look at how much we're willing to suffer and not fight back! Now will you love the Jews?")

5. "I don't have delusions -- I know what kind of person he is. I simply believe in love. Love is the most powerful thing in the world. With the strength of my love, I can turn this frog into a prince. A woman has the power to do the impossible! If I love him so much, it must be that he loves me too. It can't be that I'm creating something out of nothing. That would be foolish. I'm not a fool -- I just believe in love!" (Israel: "We'll make them love us.... We'll get their approval in the end.")

6. "True, some days I just feel like committing suicide, because, after all, if I didn't exist, I wouldn't be abused! I'll give up my dreams, my identity, my desires, and shrink myself to nothing. Then the abuse will stop, because I will no longer be here to take it." (Israel: "We've gotten too big, too powerful for them. Let's shrink ourselves down a little. Then there won't be anything to attack.")

7. "All my relatives -- especially my rich uncle Sam -- keeps telling me that I'm the one who has to give in, that I'm the one with the power to stop the violence. I don't really know what he means, because I was sleeping the last time he bashed me in the head. But Uncle S tells me it's my fault and Uncle helps me pay the bills, so I have to do things his way..." (Israel: "The whole world puts all this pressure on us to give in. We have to accommodate them or we won't be able to pay our bills.")

8. "I'm a nice, peace-loving person. I'll destroy my self-image if I turn into one of those aggressive women who fight back, argue, call the police or make waves. It makes me feel superior to be the one who's so enlightened and civilized." (Israel: "We're so good! No Arab country is willing to take in Arab refugees. But we're made of better stuff.")

9. "I'm an optimist. That's just my nature. I guess it has to do with my being a spiritual person. Don't ask me how, but I'm confident that everything will work out in the end." (Israel: "We're optimistic. That's just our nature...")

10. "He took me to all these romantic places (Madrid, Sharm el Sheik, Taba, Camp David, Wye Plantation) and we talked and he told me that he's ready to make up, and all that love-making just makes me forget the past and want to start all over again. You can't imagine how truly charming he can be when he wants something from me. If there's a chance to work things out, I'm willing to go through anything just to get him to smile at me like that again!" (Israel: "We'll do anything for peace...")

11. "I have no choice. He's my only hope for love. I can't stand to be rejected. What he's giving me is better than no relationship at all. I can't bear to be alone." (Israel: "We have no choice. There is no other partner for peace.")

12. "I'm so weak and helpless. I need him to protect me." (Israel: "We need a Palestinian state to protect us from the terrorists.")

13. "People keep telling me that the whole problem is that I didn't show him enough respect in the past. They tell me that if I just respect him more, then he'll love me. Even if he beats me up, I have to show restraint and be more respectful. They tell me that that, truly, is the ultimate key -- respect. Then I'll be loved. I can't wait!" (Israel: "If Arafat gets enough peace awards, it'll become a self-fulfilling prophecy and he'll change and become the nice guy we've always envisioned he can be.")

14. "I'm tired of fighting. I have no strength left. I just want him to love me..." (Israel: "We're tired of fighting... after 50 years of war, we just want peace.")

15. "I got used to it. Most of the time, it doesn't really even hurt all that much." (Israel: "We can take it. We're tough. We clean up the blood and go on. These are the sacrifices we have to make for Peace.")

16. "At least he's showing me attention. That's better than being ignored." (Israel: "The world doesn't care about the Kurds or the Tibetans or all the other abused minorities. The State Department didn't try to make peace between the Greeks and the Turks. Look how much attention it gives little Israel. The whole UN dwells only on Israel! This must be love...")

17. "He's really not evil, just misguided. He had such a difficult childhood. He doesn't realize what he's doing. It's really not his fault. He doesn't know any better. He needs to be rehabilitated, educated. That's my job. And if I don't succeed, It's my fault." (Israel: "Arabs aren't bad, just frustrated. By example, we'll teach them how to be more humane.")

18."I feel such pity for him. He keeps saying that he is the abused one. He looks so pitiful. When he's shooting at me with his new gun, he tells me about how much he's suffered from me and I feel so bad for him. So, if it makes him feel like more of a man to beat me up, what's the big deal? He needs this release. You know how frustrated men get!" (Israel: "The Arabs are so frustrated. The 'occupation' is depriving them of their manhood. So we have to let them let off steam....")

19. "Everyone tells me to forget the past. Start afresh. They assure me that he's turned over a new leaf. Maybe he's changed. People keep pointing out the fact that he did bring me flowers when I was in the hospital after he broke my nose. And he's often so helpful to the neighbors. He can't be all bad. With the right therapist, I'm sure he'll change." (Israel: "No one was killed today. So maybe they really did turn over a new leaf! Albright, Ross, Mitchell, Tennet, Zinni, Powell... they keep saying it's gonna work. We just have to be brave and stick it out a while longer.")

Excerpted from an article by Dr. Miriam Adahan. Dr. Adahan is a psychologist, therapist, prolific author and founder of EMETT ("Emotional Maturity Established Through Torah") _- a network of self-help groups dedicated to personal growth

(taken from chabad.org)

[WanderingJew]

ChachChach..i just read that on chabad.org and it's brilliant, thanks for posting it

[noahidelaws]

BS"D
Knesset Member Rechavam Ze’evi
Dollars * Cheshvan 14 * 5750 (1989)

Mr. Ze’evi asks what needs to be done to protect the land of Israel that has not already been done. The Rebbe responds that Mr. Ze’evi should be occupied in the dissemination of Judaism, and ensure that the inhabitants of the land of Israel should indeed dwell in the land, in the spiritual sense, and that this should be noticeable in their daily conduct.

The Rebbe emphasizes that this is not so difficult, because this is not a matter of creating something new, but merely of revealing existing qualities. In the case of young children, this can be seen in an even more pure form.

Mr. Ze’evi must announce at every opportunity that the true meaning of “the land of Israel” is that both in the land and in its inhabitants one can easily recognize that Judaism is a natural part of them, just like breathing the atmosphere.

[Jude]

so 800 soldiers were bussed in on Shabbos to a little outpost called Gilad Farm, which was founded in memory of Gilad Zar who was gunned down by Arab terrorists, in order to dismantle it
the courts have to deliberate about whether terrorists' homes can be demolished, while attack after attack takes place (not surprisingly, when terrorists' homes are razed, Arabs call in and report impending attacks, not wanting their own homes to join the same fate), while a few Jews who legally bought the land, are thrown out by other Jews, and arms and legs are broken

then we have a major attack two days later

is there any connection? the Rebbe certainly thinks so!

:tired: :disapp: :(

[Jude]

Rabbi Y. Springer asked/told the Rebbe, back at the time of the Gulf War, about taking a group of people to Eretz Yisrael to be mechazek (strengthen, support) the people there.

Interestingly, the Rebbe nixed the idea, saying it would be far more productive to get people to increase their Torah and mitzvos. So R' Springer put ads in the paper, urging people to commit to mitzvos.

I find this interesting because many people feel that the ultimate gesture is going to visit Eretz Yisrael. It might actually be the greatest gesture of solidarity, but the greatest help we can offer is an increase in Torah and mitzvos.

[Jude]

Today IDF soldiers detected and killed two armed terrorists south of Hevron this morning. The Arabs had opened fire on the troops from within a local cave, but no Israelis were hurt. In another incident early this morning, reserve soldiers sought and finally found an armed terrorist trying to enter Kibbutz Nachal Oz, east of the Gaza Strip. After opening fire, the soldiers ascertained that he was no longer dangerous, administered first aid, and then transferred him to Barzilai Hospital in Ashkelon.

now I KNOW we're crazy :tired: (in case I didn't already know it :rolleyes: )

[Jude]

Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, formerly Israel's Sephardic Chief Rabbi - the Rishon LeTzion - and the long-time spiritual authority of the Shas Party, has retracted his 30-year-old Halakhic [Jewish legal] ruling that Israel may give over territories in order to save lives.

In a letter addressed to the Jews of Yesha (Judea, Samaria, and Gaza), Rabbi Yosef wrote that it has since been proven that giving away territory has actually led to the loss of life, and it is therefore forbidden to give land to the Arabs. He wrote that the Oslo Accords are null and void. A translation of the entire letter follows:
"I would like to clarify my position regarding Judea, Samaria and Gaza. The Halakhic ruling that I issued, "territories for peace," is not valid at all in light of the current situation. My intention was exclusively to true peace, in which Jerusalem and its environs would sit in security, tranquilly and serenely. Now, however, our eyes so sadly see that the opposite is true: giving away territory from our holy land causes endangerment to lives. Not for this peace have we longed, and not for this boy did we pray. Therefore, the Oslo Agreement is null and void."

Yesha Council leaders say that even though the timing of the new ruling is certainly related to the elections, in that Shas is seeking the support of Yesha residents, "we attribute great importance to the ruling, and see it as a positive and historic turn in hareidi Jewry's attitude towards the settlement enterprise in Yesha."

[Jude]

A few yrs ago, when the leftist media was attacking Netenyahu and making up charges against him, Arutz 7 began using a term to refer to the leftist media:
Instead of calling them Tikshoret Hasmol (leftist media), Arutz 7 referred to them as:
Tishkoret Hasmol (leftist deception).

There have been many polls taken in Israel over the past few weeks. Newspapers and private polls are taking new polls regularly as we get closer to the Knesset elections scheduled for January 28th. As in any western country, the poll takers provide list of all the parties (in US the candidates) running (standing for election), and let the people choose which one they prefer.
All (almost) poll takers are listing all the parties in Israel running, from the right to the left.
There is one glaring exception. Their means of deception is to list the parties excluding one party. In each poll the new Tishkoret Hasmol takes, they make sure not to list one party - the same party each time. Therefore when the current Tishkoret lists the results, the party they did not list, does not even appear in their results, as if they did not receive any vote in the poll.
The media using this blatant system of Tishkoret (deception) is Arutz 7.
The party they do not list, is it Shinui or Meretz - leftist anti religious parties?
No, the party they do not give people the option to choose in the poll is - Herut.

Herut, is the only party running in the upcoming election that does not agree to giving away any part of Eretz Yisrael, and who's platform is to extend Israeli law over the entire Yesha (Yehuda, Shomron and Gaza strip).

Why has Arutz 7 resorted to such leftist means of deceptions?
Arutz 7 the "nationalist" media in Israel?
Arutz 7 is trying to use their influence so that voters will NOT have a real choice.
Arutz 7 is trying to influence voters to vote only for Ichud Leuimi headed by Lieberman. Ichud Leuimi is comprised of 3 parties, two parties are religious, and one is not secular, it is vehemently anti religious and left leaning regarding a PLO state - Yisrael Beitanu. Yisrael Beitanu has the majority of the positions on the Ichud Leumi list. It is led by Lieberman. Their platform that is similar to Shinui.

He openly supports:

1) Open immigration to Israel of millions of Russian gentiles.
2) Ban any laws regarding Shabbat.
3) Resume El Al flights on Shabbat.
Many other anti religious laws.

Last week Leiberman announced that he would rather be in a coalition with Shinui then be in a coalition with Shas. Not that Shas is the next best thing to Mom or apple pie, however despite any of the many criticism that we may level against Shas, they support religious educational institutions and have helped many thousands of families that no other political party cared to help.

Is Lieberman on the right regarding security?
About as much as Shinui is, or Sharon. A year ago he publicly announced and had on his website, that he supported Autonomy.

Feel free to pass this on to anyone else that feels that free press and honest polls are important. If so, you will want to e-mail Arutz 7 to insist that they stop acting as Tishkoret Hasmol - the deceptive left.

Oh, by the way, who is the financial backer of Arutz 7?
You guessed right - I mean Left, one of the three parties of Ichud Leumi. They call that "impartial."

Send an e-mail to Arutz 7:
neteditor at israelnn.com

In the subject write:
Arutz 7 Tishkoret Hasmol, STOP leftist tactics.

In the body of the e-mail to insist that they
1) Either stop taking polls, or begin doing honest polls, AND
2) Honestly report all of the other polls taken by newspapers and private polls.

In all the other polls, Herut is shown making at least the minimum to get into the Knesset, with most polls showing Herut receiving at least 2 seats. A couple polls have already shown Herut winning between 3 and 4 seats.

(disclaimer: I have not verified this for myself. Jude)

[Jude]

I e-mailed Arutz Sheva about this. Here's the response I got:

Although we of course covered the right-wing parties, we tried not to give too much individual coverage to them. Herut, National Union, Yisrael B'aliyah, and NRP are more or less equal, I believe, in our reports of the past weeks.

Of course, I may be wrong...

In any event, just for the record, I predict that Herut will have 2 seats.

Hillel Fendel

[Jude]

When Sharon told a certain journalist something in the name of the Rebbe, a certain Internet site that reports Chabad news made this their main headline along with a big picture of Sharon. Look everybody! We have a Prime Minister that is mamosh mekushar to the Rebbe! Yet another Chabad victory.

:tired:

This while Sharon fights against the Rebbe's hora'os 24 hours a day and is responsible for the death, maiming, and bereavement of thousands, while endangering millions of Jews, but this point is not mentioned in the news item ... :disapp:

[Jude]

(from Arutz Sheva)

The 21st anniversary of the dismantling and evacuation of the city of Yamit and neighboring communities in northwestern Sinai will be commemorated this afternoon in N'vei Dekalim, the "capital" of Israel's southern Mediterranean Coastal communities in Gush Katif. The ceremony will take place in the local hesder yeshiva, which was originally founded in Yamit. Following the signing of a peace agreement with Egypt in 1979, 17 communities were destroyed and some 5,000 residents were removed from their homes in 1981-2.

Nine years ago, on the 12th anniversary of the withdrawal from Sinai and shortly after the Oslo Agreement was signed, then opposition-MK Ariel Sharon - who in 1982 served as Israel's Defense Minister and oversaw the destruction of Yamit - said the following:
"Every re-location of a point of settlement is a very difficult thing, and I would like to note and emphasize that, in light of what is going on now, and in light of the government's attempt to use what happened in Sinai as a precedent for what it wants to do now in Judea, Samaria and Gaza and the Golan, i.e., the dismantling of communities - this shows that it was a very bad mistake to decide on the dismantling of the communities. Because we see now where this is leading to. In light of what happened since - it was very hard at the time, but no one ever thought that an Israeli government would arise and use the precedent of Sinai, which occurred in totally different circumstances, to justify the dismantling of communities in the Golan or Yesha. In light of this, I must say that what we did then was a mistake, seeing that this is where it led to."

yeah, well? :tired:

[Yankel Nosson]

Originally posted by Jude
yeah, well? :tired:
What would that chosid Sharon say to all that? "Nishtanu ha'itim."

[Jude]

"MK Meir Porush of the United Torah Judaism party has begun an unprecedented hunger strike, protesting the proposed cuts in child allowances in the current emergency economic recovery plan. "These cuts are basically a death decree for children in Israel," Porush told Arutz-7 today, "and I know that [several] people have committed suicide in Israel because of [economic difficulties]. When a certain number of people have been killed on a given highway, the highway is deemed a 'road of blood,' and it seems to me that our country is on its way to becoming a 'country of blood,' unless the leaders wake up..." "

another perspective, by Shai Gefen:

The economic cutbacks that the government is about to hit all of us with, are terrible. Tens of thousands of large families will experience deep cuts in their income, while the same government gives hundreds of millions of shekel to the P.A. For many of these families, it’s literally the bread that they eat.

Let’s examine the root of the problem and try to understand why we have reached this stage, especially when the person responsible for this is our (former) good friend Bibi.

The economic crisis did not happen because of money that went to yeshivos, nor did it happen because of the law which awards stipends to large families. The economic crisis is a result of the Oslo Accords which gave us not only death and bereavement, but financial woes as well. The two and a half years of the Oslo War have cost the government tens of billions of shekel. Each day of war costs the army millions of shekel.

Even the expenses of Bituach Leumi (the national Social Security system) skyrocketed as a direct result of the Oslo Accords: tens of thousands of wounded, physically and emotionally; a thousand dead; not to mention the death of the tourist industry, damage to property, car theft etc. which costs the government a fortune. All that is in addition to indirect damages. No wonder leaders talk about the need to cut the budget but they forget to tell us who is to blame for this state of affairs.

Even the religious parties that scream bloody murder about the budget cuts don’t acknowledge that they brought these problems upon themselves. Netanyahu, “Good for the Jews,” who continued the Oslo Tragedy under false pretenses with the Chevron Accords and Wye, is the Treasury Minister who is bringing upon us the financial results of his mistakes.

Erev Pesach, the Moetzes Gedolei Ha’Torah convened for a meeting in light of the financial situation and the gezeiros that are about to descend upon the Torah world. It’s certainly touching to see the concern these rabbonim have, that they found the time to discuss the financial situation as opposed to other burning issues of the day such as the immigration of thousands of goyim to Eretz Yisrael, the registration of goyim as Jews, chilul Shabbos etc.

It’s important that they know that all this comes as a result of the Oslo Accords which they accepted (outright or silently). If they continue to remain silent in the face of the steps the government is taking these days, let them not come with complaints about the financial situation which is only going to get worse.

[Yankel Nosson]

Shleimus Ha'aretz according to Yechezkel:

http://www.azamra.org/Content_images/Ezekiel%20Israel.jpg

[gezetzt]

shleimus ha'aretz:

WHY DOSNT AGUCH PUBLICIZE THE REBBES SHITA ON shleimus ha'aretz??

[Jude]

When the Sixth Agudas Yisrael Knessia Gedola convened in Eretz Yisrael in 5740, the Rebbe sent a letter to the Kinus which emphasized the resolution of the Moetzes Gedolei Ha’Torah of 5697 (1937) that Eretz Yisrael may not be divided, and about the danger in giving away land. Those in charge did not allow the Rebbe’s letter to be read. They were busy fighting for daylight savings time and with power struggles as to who was on Top. The rabbis who supported the Camp David agreement in order to get the money they wanted, didn’t mention a word about pikuach nefesh.

In the sicha of 10 Kislev of that year, the Rebbe referred to the fact that at kinusim of rabbonim they don’t speak about shleimus ha’aretz:

“When dozens of Jews arrive and gather and each one of them and all of them together are observant of Torah and Mitzvos, and their gathering is in order to strengthen Torah and Judaism, and they review the parsha each Shabbos, even those Shabbosos when they discuss the borders of Eretz Yisrael, and some of them read newspapers and know what’s going on in the world – how is it possible that they were together for three days and spoke about all sorts of important matters, truly important, and they made good resolutions, but regarding the situation which involves danger to life, literally to dozens r’l, and many more than dozens of Jews, they don’t mention it and nobody speaks up!

Then they print a report and afterwards they print their good resolutions, which are truly good, without mentioning a single word! You don’t want to mention it in public? What do you mean by not in public when everybody knows about it? It’s been publicized all over the world. You can’t make a secret out of it!

It’s a din in Shulchan Aruch that one who is quiet or one who waits until they come to him and ask – the Shulchan Aruch says a psak din about what his description is! And he knows it too! … You don’t have to ask anyone! The Shulchan Aruch was published in Tzfas by the “Master of the Land of Yisroel,” the “Beis Yosef,” and then it was printed, and in it is a clear psak din which is written in the manner of “a matter with its reason.” He doesn’t say a law without a reason for then one can debate as to the reason. He says the reason: “the land will be open before them.”

This is the letter the Rebbe sent to the sixth Knessia Gedola in 5740:

“Publicizing to the fullest extent the resolution of the Moetzes Gedolei Ha’Torah at the Knessia Ha’Gedola – Elul 5697 – that “the holy land whose borders Hashem established in the holy Torah is given to Am Yisrael the eternal nation, and any concession of the holy land which is given to us by Hashem, in all its boundaries, is worthless …

Especially when since then the situation has worsened in this matter, in a significant way, and any concession at all – is an inyan of actual pikuach nefesh, and as in the psak din in Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim, hilchos Shabbos, siman 329, that rachmana litzlan, may it never come to pass, the land will be easy to conquer.”

[Jude]

re the map in post 82 - it's interesting that Amman, Jordan is where Amon used to be ...

another point - the Nehar Peras=the Euphrates river is the northern border of Eretz Yisrael

do you know where the Euphrates River is? Take a look at a map. It's way up there in Turkey!

[Jude]

http://www.jr.co.il/terror/israel/index.html

at this Jewish website, which puts up pictures of terrorist attacks and the victims, they do not differentiate between Jew and goy

if this bothers you, as it does me, email them (scroll down to the bottom of the screen for contact info) as I did

if the webmaster sees that more than one person complained, maybe he'll do change it

[Jude]

I haven't verified this, but it has been claimed that throughout the Rebbe's hundreds of sichos about Israel and politics, the Rebbe does not blame the U.S. or European (or other) nations for pressuring Israel, but puts the blame squarely on Israel for caving in to outside pressure

I'm reminded of this because of a recent article which tries to do just the opposite.

[jjbennoach]

Originally posted by Jude
...it has been claimed that throughout the Rebbe's hundreds of sichos about Israel and politics, the Rebbe does not blame the U.S. or European (or other) nations for pressuring Israel, but puts the blame squarely on Israel for caving in to outside pressure

Yep, that's my impression. If Sharon won't stand up for Jerusalem and Israel (like he promised when he was elected) why should any American president? Especially a president who is advised by Jewish "leaders" that Sharon is the problem...

R. Manis Friedman says that "posture" (i.e., the willingness to stand up straight to pressure) is a characteristic of Mashiach. But apparently not 'til then...

[Yankel Nosson]

Insofar as Eretz Yisrael (and al achas kama v'kama medinat yisrael) does not pertain to the sheva mitzvos, the decisions of George Bush and Colin Powell, etc, are not their own and are sent from above in reaction to the free-will decisions of Jews.

As the Rebbe states in a letter: "It is not the non-Jews I fear, for they have no free will, but rather the Jews, who do have free will, who are misled."
(Letter to R' Moshe Levinger, dated December 12, 1968, http://www.truepeace.org/thecry/correspondence.htm)

[Jude]

a shocking sicha of Yud-tes Kislev 5739-1978 (sound like it was said this year):

It was said a number of times that there’s a clear psak din in the Torah [the reason for repeating it time after time is in order to “withdraw from a prohibition,” which necessitates repeating it even more than 100 times, especially when this entails danger to life and “danger is more serious than a prohibition] about when gentiles comes to a place where Jews reside. And it makes no difference whether it’s in Eretz Yisrael or outside it, or whether if it’s while the Beis Ha’Mikdash stood or during exile. [The law being that] even if they say they come only “for matters of straw and hay,” and this might be their real reason (as the Torah testifies) but there’s a doubt or a shadow of a doubt to the point that the doubt is very slight, then being that this is a city near the border, and through this the land will be opened up before them – the clear din is that even on Shabbos we must take weapons and armaments and stand strongly to prevent their entering the city!

Furthermore, “Even if they haven’t yet come, but are preparing to come,” even when it’s only something we know about, a doubtful bit of knowledge, or even a shadow of a doubtful bit of knowledge that perhaps they are “preparing to come” – the Torah declares – when it comes to a din of the Torah there’s no difference whether it’s one doubt or 100 doubts – you must take weapons and stand strongly against them.

All the more so is it forbidden to offer to open the land up before the nations of the world r’l, or even to give a foothold in a place where Israeli settlements are, and even if only one Jew lives there.

Some ask: the point of the concessions is to make peace, and peace is an important principle of the Torah which says, “great is peace for the entire Torah was given to make peace in the world” – how is it possible, in such a situation, to stand with weapons and not give in an inch since this is what it says in the Torah?!

The answer is that only the peace that Hashem agrees to can have any permanence, whereas peace that comes about through concessions leads r’l to war, may it not come to pass. The only way to achieve “and I will give peace in the land” – the peace that Hashem wants – is by acting in accordance with Shulchan Aruch – “go in My statutes and guard My commandments.”

Since our generation is an orphaned generation in which the darkness is doubled and redoubled – as said many times – therefore everything is shown in the clearest, most open way.

There exists the concern that if you make concessions to goyim they will ask for more and more until they ask for everything. In order not to enable Jews to act in opposition to true peace and the will of Hashem and His Torah – we needed open miracles so that the nations of the world would not want to accept what was offered them. We’ve seen the miracles that happened which are completely not understandable according to nature!

Open miracles: even though Jews forced themselves to give up land, the Arabs didn’t agree to accept it!

Along come Jews, who for many years running spoke strongly against giving away land, and now, since “their yetzer forced them,” they announce that they want to give away land, though they made it conditional and said that within the land they’d give away there would remain something in Israel’s possession. And those who were a bit stronger said that the “something” that would remain wouldn’t be 400 parsa by 400 parsa [the biblical dimensions of the Holy Land] but would at least be bigger than the land that was in Israel’s possession until the Six Day War …

Although they [the Arabs] could have gained lots of territory – they did not agree to accept these offers and they did not want to sign on any paper, but they demanded more and more!

From all this we clearly see and in a miraculous way, that even when Jews force themselves to give up parts of Eretz Yisrael – they are shown from Above that the goyim do not agree to accept it since they want more. As said before, this teaches us that true peace is only according to Torah and peace which is essentially against halacha, will not succeed.

Although everybody knows what the real meaning of “autonomy” is, Hashem does not rely on this. Rather, He shows what happens in the territories and even in the Old City of Yerushalayim. And even before they gave them weapons for the police, and even before they allowed them to vote for those who would represent them – the Arabs had already attacked the army and the police, and this is not the place to detail the rest of the things going on there. Let what is printed in the newspapers suffice, and there’s no need to wait for revelations of far more serious things that happened there.

When the Arab sees that the Jews are weak and afraid of the goyim and want to give away their land etc. – it causes him to get braver and to exhibit more chutzpa. To strike, to infiltrate and terrorize, in those places where (not only the Jewish army is, but also) the Jewish police is, and the details were already printed in the papers, in addition to the facts that are hidden from the public.

All these details, that the Arabs are already raising their heads and taking action, [are things that] Hashem shows us even before they are given autonomy. This is in order to make it clear to the Jews what kind of results autonomy will produce; all the more so in this case, when they know what autonomy is and don’t need to guess since, as said previously, they actually saw it. Wherever there was autonomy, as soon as they were given even a semblance of autonomy, they sent the Jews away from all the places where they were given this power.

All the more so after giving them autonomy, that this will open the land before them ch’v – of course they won’t be able to do anything against the Arabs! After establishing autonomy, will Arabs care what so-and-so along with his friends decided a month before that, that a Jew is allowed to settle there? That’s a “joke and a mockery.”

When they say we must concede since Hashem commanded, “don’t start up with the little goy,” and all the more so with the “big goy,” and furthermore, since we need the money and weapons we get from the U.S. we can’t anger them, and therefore we must concede – as was said numerous times, if they concede there won’t be r’l anything to use the money and weapons for!

As we see now, when we make concessions – immediately they ask for more…and they even said that before they sign the final agreement, they will ask for more. They’ve already disclosed what they’ll ask for: the Old City of Yerushalayim!

Although they say they didn’t speak about giving away the Old City until now, the truth is they spoke about everything at Camp David and even before that; to the point that they spoke about giving away all the territories [they had just conquered] immediately after the Six Day War!

The reason that the more we concede the more they want is since they see Jews giving in to pressure, even conceding on half or a third or a quarter, they don’t lose hope because what will they lose if they get a third or quarter now and then continue to pressure?

[roza]

http://www.zarodinu.org/hebhyperz.htm

[Yankel Nosson]

Great image, Roza!

[Jude]

Since this is ChabadTalk and this thread is called Shleimus Ha'Aretz, I don't think an article by Rosenblum, who is a sonei Lubavitch and whose position (as quoted from 'gedolim') defies the Rebbe's plea, belongs here.

[Yankel Nosson]

Based on what is he a "sonei Lubavitch"?

[Leayis]

i agree. this article would come to better use in you tissue box on top of your toilet bowl. it does not belong here.

[Jude]

I assume you mean based on what do I say so (as opposed to why he is a sonei lubavitch) - the answer is the articles he has written.

He's a regular writer for the Jewish Observer. Years ago, he reviewed a book which had a very positive chapter on Lubavitch. In his review he took exception to this positive view of Lubavitch, and apparently I wasn't the only one who noticed and complained because in the next issue of J.O. there was a Box with an Explanation from the Author (not G-d forbid a Retraction) in which Rosenblum said, I didn't mean to say Lubavitch doesn't do much. Yeah, they do good stuff.

He's a BT who has been inculcated with Misnagdic hate for Chasidim in general, Chabad in particular.

I know of a book he wrote about a great man (one of the Artscroll bios) and how the person who commissioned him to write the book had to struggle to get him to write about the Chasidic leanings of the person he was writing about since Rosenblum would have preferred to gloss over it.

[Yankel Nosson]

chaval

[Jude]

at a Yud-tes Kislev farbrengen in 5736 (1975), the Rebbe explained why six yeshiva bachurim were murdered in Chevron. The reasons the Rebbe enumerated did not change. They speak for themselves:

" … the most recent events, what happened r’l with the kedoshim, yeshiva boys, may Hashem avenge their blood – this began with “b’mishichoi” – for those who ought to say what daas Torah is, did not say daas Torah, or as the Gemara puts it, “kavshu pneihem b’karka” (hid their faces in the ground, i.e. didn’t speak up), and afterwards this extended into the public domain or in the private domains of other Jews…

The connection of this (the murder of yeshiva bachurim) with the most recent events is, that when they made what they called “the interim arrangement” which meant that they would leave the secure borders and give the sources of oil and fortified places to our opponents – I made a tumult about it: calling upon rabbonim: make a tumult! It’s the opposite of the din!

The event which took place with the yeshiva bachurim is because Jews handed over r’l, that which protects them b’derech ha’teva (according to natural means), for Hashem wants there to be “something” b’derech ha’teva, as the Medrash says, “a little finger” – they showed the goyim that they would remain denuded regarding protection b’derech ha’teva, and gave them the oil and the “cities of refuge” and the secure cities, and told them that they relied on their word, which they immediately regretted!"

[rebayzl]

Originally posted by Jude
I assume you mean based on what do I say so (as opposed to why he is a sonei lubavitch) - the answer is the articles he has written.

He's a regular writer for the Jewish Observer. Years ago, he reviewed a book which had a very positive chapter on Lubavitch. In his review he took exception to this positive view of Lubavitch, and apparently I wasn't the only one who noticed and complained because in the next issue of J.O. there was a Box with an Explanation from the Author (not G-d forbid a Retraction) in which Rosenblum said, I didn't mean to say Lubavitch doesn't do much. Yeah, they do good stuff.

He's a BT who has been inculcated with Misnagdic hate for Chasidim in general, Chabad in particular.

I know of a book he wrote about a great man (one of the Artscroll bios) and how the person who commissioned him to write the book had to struggle to get him to write about the Chasidic leanings of the person he was writing about since Rosenblum would have preferred to gloss over it.

I agree with the idea, but I think we can start a new thread about "Kabel HaEmet Mimi sheAmra".

Even if JR is a ..., If he writes something positive that can be used, perhaps we should not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[Jude]

I agree, which is why I post articles from non-Lubavitchers. The particular article from Rosenblum that was posted here opposed the Rebbe's position. Hence its removal from this thread and this website.

[Jude]

Israel gets to bury more murder victims as they release 400+ more prisoners! Any connection here?

By Shai Gefen

The entire world is watching a country continue to abase itself, this time regarding the captives. The dilemma was certainly a tough one, with a captive Jew on the one hand (in addition to the bodies of three Jews), but the release of 400+ terrorists and criminals on the other hand. We know from bitter experience that the Arab prisoners will go back to perpetrating acts of terror.

Israel has done this before in the Jibaril deal, when they released over 1000 terrorists in exchange for some captives. The results were disastrous. Most of them returned to doing terrorist acts and killing Jews.

Furthermore, if we look closely, we'll notice that the principle which guides our leaders is capitulation. There's no backbone, no red lines. It's all about pressure. One capitulation follows another. This sums up the political concessions that have been made; when temporary, imagined, pressure is what determines the most delicate and important issues.

This is what impelled our ignominious flight from Lebanon, the results of which are the Oslo War, which was initiated against us after Arafat learned from Nasralla how to expel the Zionist enemy. Now he's doing the same thing while we capitulate to the pressure of the murderer from Lebanon.

25 years ago, Israel released 76 terrorists, including murderers, to get back one Jewish captive, the soldier Amram Avrohom, who was returned to Israel a year after he fell into enemy hands in Lebanon. The Rebbe said a sicha that addressed this (Bamidbar 5739-1979):

"… another shocking thing that we see … but it shows how far things have gone. There was a Jew who was being held captive and they didn't want to free him (from enemy captivity) until they exchanged him for more than 70 of the enemy.

This took place at a time when the U.S. signed a similar agreement with the Soviet Union, with Russia, and exchanged 5 captives for two captives - and here it was one for 70 plus.

It is true that halachically there is room to debate since this is about the pikuach nefesh of a Jew and if you have to give up quite a number, then there's room to discuss what the halacha ought to be. But this has another important issue involved in that they openly said that since there's no other choice, and since he's a family man they could not figure how many they needed to release from jail for him, and so they did it.

They asked him: but there were many occasions when they took hostages and the terrorists expected that so-and-so would be released, with equal numbers or double the number, but never seventy times the number! You yourselves announced that this is a principle of yours, not to submit to threats - with a reason offered, a reason that has both a halachic and a logical basis, and even a diplomatic basis (which is what they're building on now). Namely, that if they show the way, that threats will result in release [of prisoners] or anything else - this will stimulate them to run after hostages - therefore there's no choice but to show them it won't help.

And they stuck to this principle for many years running, even though it led to the deaths of Jews whose names are written, for these are open matters. However, now they suddenly had a change of heart, and in a shocking way as said before, one in exchange for seventy!

… Since you can't fool the world all the time and in all things, among the seventy plus - nearly half were in jail not for inconsequential reasons. And even if it was for inconsequential reasons, they had maintained a position for years of not submitting to terrorist threats. In addition, nearly half (over 30) were involved in terrorist activity, to the point of actual terrorism and the loss of Jewish lives.

This is something that cannot be retracted!! Over 70 are living in freedom and in such a situation that r'l, may it not happen, there's no reason why they shouldn't try again!

As said before, this is not solely a matter onto itself. We see an approach, r'l, they have adopted… those who threaten and pressure - there's nothing they won't do r'l, and the proof is there is no greater issue, no greater concession, no greater withdrawal than the fact that for years they insisted on this position, and r'l they lost lives for this position, and suddenly they released over thirty!

This is part of the general approach, the "approach" which is the opposite of, "and I will lead you upright."

As I said at the previous farbrengen, when they spit r'l, and he knows he has been spat in the face, he fools the other one into thinking it was "rains of blessing!" He tells him to say the "ha'tov v'ha'meitiv" blessing - not an actual bracha, but the making of a seuda and wishing mazal tov, and dancing in the street and waving the flag, with everything associated with it."

In light of this, it's frightening to think that they released 400+ prisoners, in exchange for one captive citizen and three bodies. By doing this, Israel conveys a clear message to all terror organizations the world over - snatch Israeli hostages, and don't forget to present a bill so they know how much to pay.

When the government negotiates deals with lands and territories that are integral to the strategic security of the people of Israel, and concedes these possessions with the wave of a hand, in the end they deal in lives, thus putting all Jews, wherever they are, in danger.

[Jude]

so their big guy is killed by the Israelis and what happens? More than 200,000 Palestinians flooded the streets for the funeral procession, the largest gathering in Gaza City in recent memory. Thousands also took to the streets in the West Bank.

does anybody think that when a Jew is killed by a terrorist, that 200,000 Jews should take to the streets and say things like, ''Words cannot describe the emotion of anger and hate inside our hearts,'' as Hamas official Ismail Haniyeh, a close associate of Yassin said?

I do.

[shoyn]

כשנודע ב-770 דבר חיסולו של השייח יאסין, דאג הרב יקותיאל מנחם ראפ (קותי בלע"ז), לתת את הקרדיט לאחראים לחיסול: בנצי קעניג והוא.

"מידי יום בריקודים - כך הרב ראפ - מנגן הת' קעניג את הניגון "הרנינו גויים . . ונקם ישיב לצריו" באמצע הריקודים. היום נפתחו הריקודים בניגון זה, ואת התוצאות יכולנו לראות מיד בחיסולו של הצורר ימ"ש".

[Bittul]

iamachasid, does the above post also need a smiley, or is it ok to be delusional, but reality needs censorship?

[iamachassid]

BIttul, my deleted smiles were for you, you or shoyn can add your own, my only comment is that thing has to be translated.

[Jude]

sinas ha'chasidim m'acheres es ha'Geula

[shoyn]

but when the sina is directed against our enemies it achieves wonders

[Jude]

only if you believe that saying Tehillim is effective

[Jude]

In a sicha of Vayakhel-Pikudei 5740, the Rebbe said that even if the battle will harm the hafatzas ha’maayonos, it must be fought anyway:

The issue of giving away land depends on nothing else – not on getting money for yeshivos, gaining honor, or on whether it will interfere with spreading the wellsprings and mivtzaim – the only question is: will the “country be easy for them to conquer?”

If so, according to all the experts, we may not give away anything. We must stand with weapons and defend all the territories. Since this is a clear psak din in Shulchan Aruch – there’s nothing to argue about!

[Jude]

Rabbi Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld's view of shleimus ha'aretz:

http://www.innernet.org.il/article.php?aid=316

[rebayzl]

http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage6.asp

[Jude]

the article goes on forever
what is her point?
what does it have to do with this thread?

[noahidelaws]

Insofar as Eretz Yisrael (and al achas kama v'kama medinat yisrael) does not pertain to the sheva mitzvos, the decisions of George Bush and Colin Powell, etc, are not their own and are sent from above in reaction to the free-will decisions of Jews.

This is erroneous:

One of the Noahide laws forbids robbery. Thus, we should explain to the non-Jew that when the Land of Israel is in his hands, he commits robbery.

Moreover, when a non-Jew violates one of the seven Noahide commandments, he deserves death. [Ibid., Laws of Kings, 9:14] Thus, on the contrary: only by vigilantly avoiding robbery will he remain alive and not deserve death. His interests are thus best served when the Land of Israel is not in his hands.

The "pursuers of peace" claim that it is detrimental for non-Jews for the land not to be in their hands. The opposite is the case: Only by not handing over the Land of Israel have we pursued his best interest, for thereby he will remain alive.

Likewise, it is impossible to give him even one piece of land. Every single "inch" of the land is vital to all the borders of the land. However, apart from this, giving the non-Jew even one inch of the Land of Israel constitutes robbery, for the non-Jew has no connection at all with the Land of Israel.

At the Covenant of the Halves ["Brit Bein Habetarim"] G-d gave the Land of Israel to the Jewish people. In fact, it is written even earlier, "To you [Abraham] I have given it" [Genesis, 13:15]—in the past tense. Rashi there interprets, "G-d's statement is as if it were done," i.e., the Land of Israel was given to us even then.

Shabbos Bereishis 5730