Moses, Zusia and I

[Shmeryl]

Wellsprings 48, 27 (2001) Moses Zusia and I by Shlomo Yaffe brings out the irony that the independent spirit that caused a BT to return is suppressed in the system subsequently.

seems the case. Comments please?!

[rebayzl]

http://www.e-wellsprings.org/Article.asp?Category=3&Article=24

[Shmeryl]

Splendid :classic: Now people can give their opinions.

[Gevurah]

bunch of gibberish

[rebayzl]

Gevurah, care to elaborate (...)

[Gevurah]

he read the Wall Street journal as a kid. Geze..

[noahidelaws]

I think it's very well written and accurate. I'll never forget an older BT friend of mine, who was very successful at college before his discovery of Torah, relate how when he asked in all sincerity how to meditate on Chasidus, he was told by many people who were otherwise respectable "oh, no one does that anymore, that's not important." He was very upset at this attitude.

Had he been encouraged to do so, he is the type who would have done it. Of course, he's still not a run-of-the-mill guy, but he never realised that aspiration, to my knowledge.

[Gevurah]

but he stayed and behaved?
Taka the Rebbe's goal?

[noahidelaws]

He never fully adopted the "Chabad lifestyle" (obviously, I'm taking issue with how that is perceived, but you know what I mean).

The Rebbe's goal is for everyone to realise their individual potential WITHIN the "system."

[Shmeryl]

The Rebbe's goal is for everyone to realise their individual potential WITHIN the "system."

But not within "Chabad"....

Suppose one is informed by the Gabbai of the local Chabad Anash shul (not Chabad House) that their participation is too emotional......i.e. conform and daven / speak in the same monotone / parrot / lingo.... i.e. TOE THE LINE or you cannot publically participate....

Would the Rebbe prefer that they leave such a Chabad to maximize their individual expression as in the article above or to conform?

[noahidelaws]

The Rebbe's goal is for everyone to realise their individual potential WITHIN the "system."

originally posted by Shmeryl
But not within "Chabad"....

Suppose one is informed by the Gabbai of the local Chabad Anash shul (not Chabad House) that their participation is too emotional......i.e. conform and daven / speak in the same monotone / parrot / lingo.... i.e. TOE THE LINE or you cannot publically participate....

Would the Rebbe prefer that they leave such a Chabad to maximize their individual expression as in the article above or to conform?

If a person is used to praying demonstratively by waving and clapping hands, jumping up and down, crying out loudly, etc. as is the custom in certain other Chasidic circles, there is nothing wrong with that as such, and it also would not distract other members of those circles. But since it's not the Chabad way, if someone would do that in a Chabad shul he would distract others from prayer.

....i.e. conform and daven / speak in the same monotone / parrot / lingo....

The Chabad view, which emphasises "pnimiyus" is that demonstrativeness is not necessarily a reflection of true kavana, and that the lack of demonstrativeness is not necessarily a reflection of lack of kavana (although it may well be). I know an eltere Chossid who davvens be'arichus all the time and barely moves while praying.

If you personally feel a need for demonstrativeness that is fine, but apparently the Chabad shul is not for you.

As for what I said: The Rebbe's goal is for everyone to realise their individual potential WITHIN the "system."

...apparently there are exceptions to the rule.

[Yankel Nosson]

Where I am we see a lot of dancing in one of shuls (not the Chabad House)...my wife calls it the mosh pit. :rolleyes: