Cost of Shaitels?!

[MitzvahMaidel]

Hi everybody. First off, l'd like to express what a wonderful site this is. I've been browsing for a bit and have enjoyed this lovely forum.

But to the point: Shaitels are very expensive. It's definately possible to get something pretty cheap but consider this. One rebbitzin I know has to buy a shaitel every six months because, B"H, she's so busy and does everything in it that it wears out in that amount of time. She probably spends about $600 and that eqaul $1200 every year. This is a significant cost. Think about it, that's $100 a month or ALOT of groceries for people who don't have much money. I'm definatly not downing the idea to wear a shaitel daily but I feel like it's an issue that's not really addressed. Shaitels are very expensive and no one wants to walk around with a crumby plastic or cheep looking shaitel.

Have you guys ever heard this asspect of fulfilling the Rebbe's wishes discussed? What are you're own feelings on the cost of shaitels? I know a lot of Hasidim who are scraping for money and sometimes out of exasperation I get frustrated by this. It seems like it puts a lot of un-needed financial pressure on people. Hashems is the TRUE provider of parnasa and we need to have faith but....

Maybe there should be some sort of tzedakah institution that provides help with purchasing nice shaitels. I've been to gemachs but the shaitels there are pretty crumby.

Surely, we can create a way for covering our hair the way the Rebbe wants without the potential stress of the high prices many shaitels today cost.
I'd love to hear your insights and practical suggestions.

[Bittul]

I think I should really stay out of this one :) . But I'll put some cents in anyway. Try "redoing" old Shaitels, and looking for non-Jewish wig-makers, who can sometimes make beautiful Sheitels.

btw, how DOES a sheitel wear out in 6 months? Does she do headstands in it?!

[WanderingJew]

Maidel, i know a handful of women who don't take the beaten track when it comes to shaitels, i.e. frum salons or shaitel machers, but they order from catalogs, or non Jewish places, which saves them loads.
it must be frustrating to have that expense buy think about this...let it subsitute the $$$$$ you'd probably be saving up to send ur kids to college!!
Being frum and being mehudar is not cheap. but it's worth every penny :)

[BLewbavitch]

BH

<<Try "redoing" old Shaitels, and looking for non-Jewish wig-makers, who can sometimes make beautiful Sheitels.>>

I have to agree with you to an extent, (the redoing part is kind of weird after a few times? I don't actually wear a Sheitel!) Although I think that Sheitels are too expensive, but you also have to look at it on their side, they also have to make a living?

[Barera]

maybe we should do for sheitels what one of the previous Gerrer Rebbes did for Spoddiks?

When the cost of Spoddiks started to increase incomprehensibly, he announced that unless the price was reduced and remained stable, he would order his chassidim to change their garb and stop wearing Spoddiks!

And guess what, prices have remained stable ever since!!!!!!

I understand that you cannot do exactly the same regarding sheitels, but i am sure something can be done!

[MitzvahMaidel]

B"H
...as for the "rebbitzin's" shaitel wearing out in 6 months, she works with very young children, has many of her own and does all the cooking (mostly) for the chabad house. She is a TRUE rebbitzin.

There are definatly ways to save on your shaitels, I really agree. As a real believer in the internet I know of all the good sites for wigs. I've even considered making my own and researched buying bulk hair! I'll probably get around to learning one of these days. It's just something I'd like to pick up anyway but they are really expensive if you want something very nice. I guess that's the way it goes. I just wish the Rebbe was here physically with us to help us sort out even these simple things. Halevai if he could make a ban, or something similar, on shaitels to bring the prices down. I don't think he ever had in mind people going broke! :)

THanks for your feedback and insight. You guys know of any good shaitel gemachs? It's pretty hard to "re-do" and old shaitel, simply because most of what makes a good shaitel good is hair quality which tends to loose its luster, styling ability and softness after time....like regular hair...BUt none the less I'd be willing to give it a go. You never know what brucha you might have in store for you!
Have a great day and be B'Simcha!!!!

[Jude]

<<She probably spends about $600>>

the question is what exactly is she buying. There is an enormous difference in quality among the different sheitels, and some last way longer than others.

I know someone who purchased a custom-made for her, human hair sheitel fourteen years ago. Three years ago, she brought it back to the one who made it, to have her add new hair and do some repairs to the net. The sheitel cost a fortune, but has served her well for fourteen years!! Now, it's not a sheitel that was worn from morning to night for fourteen years, that's true, but nevertheless - fourteen years!!

There are stories I've read in which the Rebbe paid for the cost of the top of the line sheitel (available at that time), saying that the best and nicest sheitel should be bought.

What does that mean for our times when top of the line can cost $4000? Personally, I don't think it's necessary to pay that amount for a top of the line sheitel.

In fact, a relative of mine who is engaged, just had a custom sheitel made for her for $900 in Lakewood, by someone who wants to break into the business. So all the other multi-thousand dollar sheitels are indeed good sheitels but the price is inflated because of the experience of the one making it and their excellent reputation.

<<Maybe there should be some sort of tzedakah institution that provides help with purchasing nice shaitels.>>

There are gemachs, as you mentioned, but I guess if you haven't found anything nice, it's because people are not giving away nice, expensive, sheitels!

I am a firm believer in not knocking anyone for spending a lot of money on a sheitel, particularly one custom made to fit their head. I think COMFORT is #1 when it comes to covering your head. If someone is perfectly comfortable in something out of the box, great! But if not, no one should be made to feel stupid or a spendthrift for spending top dollar on something that feels terrific and looks great.

So my advice would be: experiment with cheaper sheitels that are not custom-made and see how they fit and look. But if that doesn't work, have no qualms about buying a higher-priced one that looks and feels great.

Now that doesn't answer your question about how to afford one (or two, or three ..). Like you say, there's shopping around, like my relative did. It might also be a good idea to learn how to care for sheitels yourself (wash and set), so that you don't have to pay for upkeep in addition to the cost of the sheitel.

Otherwise, a sheitel is a Jewish expense like tuition, kosher chicken, matza for Pesach etc. and should be bought (guilt-free) before a car or other, perhaps not-quite-necessary expenses.

You know how much it costs to pay for a car - gas, repairs, insurance, tickets - thousands and thousands per year. Sheitels should come first!

[BLewbavitch]

BH

Jude, very to the point, very good.

[Bittul]

Jude, all of your points are excellent as usual. Thank you in particular for posting that last point about priorities in budget. I thought about saying that, and was too chicken!

[ChachChach]

my mother has a really good saying for situations like this. "in life, you dont skimp when it comes to kids, food and yiddishkeit"

[BLewbavitch]

BH

Great saying.

<<I thought about saying that, and was too chicken!>>

Coming from a man would give it more credit (pun intended :) )!

[Yehudiya]

Wow this subject is a toughie.
They are VERY expensive but worth every penny.

[BLewbavitch]

BH

In addition, a good custom IS very hard to make so we have to look at it like anything else that takes time and energy.

[MENACHEM]

It seems to me that none of you out there are paying for these shaitlach!!! Try to put yourselves into a fathjer's shoe- who marries off one child every year or two. it is another cause for nightmares. I think that if no one would buy the price would go down. In my area one brave shaitelmacher lowered her price by hundreds of dollars- and she still had a profit- and she was threatened biz pikuach nefesh by others in the line. Guess what- she stopped being so brave. It is up to the kallas to have rachmonus - i am proud to be the parent of daughters who went against the tide- with beautiful but cheaper -shaitlach, and were not ashamed to be a dugma for their peers. Here is a tip for kids on shlichus in the ukraine- order for your moms and sisters there- they are just as good and much cheaper.

i read a story where the rebbe sent a check to a women for a shaitel with instructions to buy the most beautiful one- that was because she did not want to wear one. I never heard of the rebbe telling anyone to put her father or husband into debt just because yennem has the latest in customs and so must she....

[Jude]

I absolutely agree that no parent should experience a nightmare because of paying for a sheitel. HOWEVER, the kallos and their parents should have the good sense to forego other NONSENSE like smorgasbords, Viennese tables, hundreds and hundreds of guests, and other unnecessary luxuries at their weddings which last all of 4 hours or so, and instead of that, buy the sheitel that is most comfortable and beautiful (hopefully longlasting too).

Halevai the sheitel machers lower the prices! That would be great!

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about buying an expensive sheitel because OTHERS do so. The point is COMFORT, beauty, and quality.

[Rafvrab]

I am not typing this at home, so I don't have the info with me, but my wife knows of a shaitelech gemach in Boro Park. Bli neder, if time and my memory allow, when I get home I'll ask her so that I may e-mail you the phone.
You know what? The best thing would be like this: if you (or any one else reading this lines) is interested, I'll e-mail you all. Please contact my with a "private message".
No flooding please!

[funnsmart1]

Sheitels,,,,, ahhhhhhhhhhhh sheitels, that is my type of topic!!! I believe that one should look their very best when it comes to every aspect of tznius,, that is the forefront of being a dugma chaya,, for Madamme Rebbitizin, there is a solution, and I know that it applies on all belongings that people own. The reason people buy tichels is because they dont want to ruin their sheitels, the reason people wear paint clothes when they paint is because they dont want to ruin their quality clothing, and for a person who wants to wear a sheitel all day every day, which is the ideal of the halacha, I commend her, but pick up a shmatta in the chinese stores for when you are in the kitchen, if she cannot inconvenience herself with switching out of the wig when she cooks, then I am assuming she wears her good clothing as well, and then I can not begin to imagine what condition they are in, and my question increases with,, does she replace her clothing every six months as well.....
To further the discussion, $600 does not buy you anything much in the way of a quality wig, but rather it is the price of a human garbage by a really overpriced sheitel macher.
I also want to say, being that I am in the business, and sell wigs on a daily basis, that treated properly, the wigs should last for a really long time,, and then value for dollar they come out worth buying expensive, 1 every 5 years, that always looks good, rather than buy a garbage one ever year,, and within 6 months look like you are wearing your neighbors dead cat on your head..... May I also comment that a woman who wears a nice sheitel within the limits of tznius makes a kiddush hashem when she walks in the street, and a person can say, here comes a frum lady, who looks beautiful, rather than seeing her look like her hair has been last washed in the year 1902!!!
Fun
May all our other mitzvos make us feel and look as good as that of covering our hair,, and may we be zoiche to the g'ulah immediately!!

[CybeRabbi]

Tried, (even quoted from there in my post) but didnt see exactly what you say, (but its a deep sugya with many subtelities, nuances and opinions, the above post is but one apparoach.)

[Jude]

since she's married, she has to look presentable :cool:

[BrookAve]

One of the staff members at my wifes school is constantly checking out her "doo". One day my wife came home and told me that her "friend" didnt stop hocking her chineck about her ends! What a petty thing to insult a person about. Is it all about the $2,000 extra virgin H.H. hand knitted top, multi-directional, never needs maintence that comes on a styrofoam head? My wife told her to get a life and learn a dvar Torah! You go girl, sainted wife of mine !

[whynot]

i don't understand a woman has the right to spend as much as she wants for a shetail or for anything else she wants. if she acts greedy trust me its not only concerning the shaitel- i'm sure that same woman makes sure she perpect matching clothes, etc.
the problem is not the shaitel but the woman.
tu b'av is when the night get longer - since one learns best at night (rambam) one should use the extra with torah study.

[Jude]

who gave her or anybody that "right"?

[rebayzl]

Are you questioning the right of a person to spend his own money? You don't believe in property rights?

[Jude]

there's free choice in which people can burn their money if they so choose, and then there's what does G-d say to do with your money. Now He doesn't dictate where every last penny should go, true, but to say "I'm entitled etc." seems to leave the G-d out of the picture.

[whynot]

in short: the problem (if at all) is the woman not the shaitel!
2) a woman has every right to like pertty.
tu bav is when the nights begin too get longer; yidden are compared to the moon- one should use the night to study torah

[donny]

Jude your right, the truth is money is a loan from Hashem and he excpects us to act responsibly with it. Burning it isnt something Hashem would like.....

[funnsmart1]

HI Whynot,
I dont think that your post regarding why women have a right to spend that amount of money on a wig, boil down to how much they spend on a wig, you are starting a completely different subject, which I personally disagree with you on. People have the right to do what they wish with their money. (in my humble opinion.)
Here is my question, as a sheitel macher, do you have any idea how much more comfortable the expensive wigs are? when a piece is hand-tied 40 hours of handwork go into it. And the lady wearing that piece, if it was made right, does not feel like she has a weight on her head. If Halacha makes a woman cover her hair, why is it that people feel she shouldn't buy the best piece on the market to suit her needs. No one seems to scrimp on the hotzaos of shabbos. Why should a lady scrimp on her yiddishkeit? We are not arabs who believe women should live their lives in their enclosed enclaves even in the million degree weather. Why is it that people find it hard to understand that a comfortable wig, that looks natural is essential to a woman's self esteem, and how she presents herself in the world, including being a mommy, is how she feels about herself. As for me, I will shop in bargain basement stores like Marshalls, for my clothing, and yes my wig is the nicest money can buy. But that is what makes me proud to do the rotzon of Hashem, instead of resent it every minute for the rest of my life.

[whynot]

good point funnsmart1 can't agree with u more- never argued.

[hishtatchus]

Hair quality matters most in long Shaitels.
If you buy a short (I mean very short) Shaitel, you can buy from the Goyishe wig catalogs, (for $50) and they'll last several months of daily wear. That may not be Shayach for everyone, but if you don't have $1000 to shell out now, you may want to use this option. Many Lubavitch women do, and you'd never know looking at them!

[funnsmart1]

Hishtatchus!
Great point! I myself have reccomended to many people to buy the cheap wigs in the chinese stores for the summer, when a good wig loses color from the sun, or if someone is off on a funfilled vacation, even my own sister who was working in the emergency room, got a present from me, a piece of junk, that she didnt care what happened to it, with all the garbage she dealt with at work. My points about the expensive wigs, are that there is nothing like them if a woman wants to look good!

[pretzel999]

If the expensive wigs look just like real hair and in many cases much better are we not defeating the purpose of s'a'r beisho chu''lu?

[mendelp]

Originally posted by pretzel999
If the expensive wigs look just like real hair and in many cases much better are we not defeating the purpose of s'a'r beisho chu''lu?
No! the concept of ervah is that any place that a woman keeps covered is considered ervah for purposes of torah and tefillah. What you should be asking is even if it is not ervah is it still modest. The same could be asked about items of clothing that meet all the technical criteria, covering elbows, knees, etc., but are provocative. and the obvious answer is if it is provocative it is ossur (although my guess is that it is not considered ervah b/c there is nothing exposed, but I may be wrong) otherwise even if it looks like (or nicer) than her own hair it is mutar.

[Jude]

check out thread Cutting Own Hair to Use as Sheitel in the Halacha section of Discuss Judaism

[RLchossid]

I read the first post and skimmed the rest because I see that one of the main problems is not being addressed. I have been wearing a shaitel for nearly 25 years. Nobody would accuse us of being rich or even middle class. I don't think that wearing a shaitel is expensive. How do I do it? 1) Any time someone tells me that what is not custom is junk, I just close my ears. If its a shop I don't buy there. 2) Ditto for anyone who takes a fortune for the first do. When I heard the price of the first do the only time I bought in Crown Heights , I put the shaitel in the box and had a friend do it at home. The shaitelmacher tried to make me feel cheap, but I don't feel any guilt. I think a gemach should be made only for people who are really needy and the effort should be made to bring down the price for everyone. If the story by Menachem is true then its a job for the Beis Din. How about a community takana by the rabonim making it forbidden to buy a shaitel over a certain price. You will see prices fall FAST. In Israel the top of the line costs about $1000 in most shops because everyone knows that they would have no customers because people don't have the money period. I don't have a car and I pay alot for tuition. We all want to do what the Rebbe says. The Rebbe said specifically that the household pays for education and what is left is to support the household. He didn't say this about anything else. The importance of wearing a shaitel is a tznius issue. We don't need the top of the line, just decent looks, comfort and quality. Many young women wear something that is uncomfortable to be fashionable. Most women in my age group look for comfort. We all look for quality. In addition, the shaitel has to be kept up properly. I think the problem centers on the influence of advertising and peer pressure as most tznius problems today. If we don't have a gzera from the goyim we make our own. (I had a human/synthetic blend for 6 years by taking care of it)

[yehonasan]

my wife only buys synthetic and it looks GREAT. THe ONLY reason people buy custom ones is to try to impress their neighbor; but in truth they should only be concerned with impressing their HUSBANDS!!!!!

[stamayid]

Way to be melamed z'chus.

[Jude]

that is an unfounded accusation which should be deleted
Have thousands (hundreds?) of women confided that to you in a survey you made?
how dare you declare that to be the ONLY reason? :tired:

[lambda]

Yehonasan, it looks like you started a hairy situation. :silly:

[yehonasan]

I will not delete it.

Why else would a person spend thousands of dollars on a custom Barbara Sheitel that looks so real that everybody (except for religious people who know better) thinks it is real hair and not a wig? Why else are people spending thousands of dollars on long, fancy, wavy, and NON-TZNIUS sheitels that don't last?

BTW, Rabbi Falk has just released a new book on Sheitels. I am sure his insight could enlighten us.

QUESTION FOR LADIES WHO WEAR EXPENSIVE HUMAN-HAIR CUSTOM SHEITELS: What would you do if your husband left the house in a brand new human-hair yarmulke that looked so much like his real hair that you could not identify whether or not he was wearing a yarmulke?

[stamayid]

Why else?

Perhaps insecurity about their physical appearances. Maybe the desire not to stick out and look different from everyone else.

It might not be the ideal feelings but certainly human and understandable.

[Jude]

It has been pointed out before, but apparently you are not interested in the Rebbe's view on this, that the Rebbe disagrees with Rabbi Falk on this point.
Rabbi Falk maintains that a natural looking wig is sinful. The Rebbe thinks one should purchase the most beautiful wig.
In addition, long wigs have not been forbidden by rabbonim in yeshivish and the Lubavitch communities.
Kindly do not preach ideas or pose questions to Lubavitchers that go against the Rebbe's position and that are not in line with the psak of Lubavitcher rabbonim.

That being said, on to the next point. You persist and insist on assuming the worst of Jewish women. You make it clear that your mind is made up about their base motivations. Perhaps this is why you have failed to make inroads regarding tznius in your community.

[yehonasan]

Custom sheitels are TOO EXPENSIVE for the average person; but people are so pressured and brain-washed to purchase custom sheitels that are probably too expensive for them that they cannot afford proper tznius clothing.

People should not be pressured to purchase custom sheitels when (as i posted previously) synthetics are now of very good quality; AND they cost $100 US instead of $2,000 US.

Try going to Wilshire wigs website -- they have great sheitels at a fair price!

[BrookAve]

Let's get back to horse hair sheitels. I trust the big wig names can come up with some appetizing styles.

[Bittul]

Originally posted by yehonasan
Custom sheitels are TOO EXPENSIVE for the average person; but people are so pressured and brain-washed to purchase custom sheitels that are probably too expensive for them that they cannot afford proper tznius clothing.

Are you for real!!!!!????? Reading your words seems to be like reading the current anti-war propaganda - "Who cares if it makes sense or not? The main thing is - there shouldn't be war!"

Are you seriously convinces that "proper tznius clothing" costs MORE than non-tznius clothing??!! I think a reality check would be proper here. Guess what? People find money for the things they really want. It's called "saving". As opposed to asking a Tzedaka fund to pay for your custom Shaitel. So if people feel that being Mehader in something that the Rebbe emphasized and pushed and explained etc. is worth saving for - I'm all for it!

And to tell you the truth - every time I see a rant about "how can people tell me and pressure me to buy custom sheitels etc.", what I hear is that you really would like to own a custom sheitel, and feel bad that you can't afford it, and therefore the pressure gets to you. If you truly don't care about having a custom sheitel, then it shouldn't bother you at all if someone else does care!

In the words of the Tzemach Tzedek: "Don't spread yourself all over the Bais Medrash, and no one will step on you!"

[BrookAve]

Dont forget about FREEDA wigs. How "fitting" it must be for FREEDA to sell a $2,500 wig after a few hours of trying on, to say to the Queen, "Du bist TzuFREEDEN mit zich ?? CACHINGGGGGGGGG !!!!

[yehonasan]

Originally posted by Bittul



And to tell you the truth - every time I see a rant about "how can people tell me and pressure me to buy custom sheitels etc.", what I hear is that you really would like to own a custom sheitel, and feel bad that you can't afford it, and therefore the pressure gets to you. If you truly don't care about having a custom sheitel, then it shouldn't bother you at all if someone else does care!

In the words of the Tzemach Tzedek: "Don't spread yourself all over the Bais Medrash, and no one will step on you!"

Wrong. My wife and I feel that wearing a human-hair sheitel with "real" scalp is not tznius.

[Bittul]

Sorry - your feelings don't count when a Rebbe has already made a statement about that. That's how we learn when we need to modify our feelings - if Torah says differently.

[pretzel999]

Originally posted by Jude
It has been pointed out before, but apparently you are not interested in the Rebbe's view on this, that the Rebbe disagrees with Rabbi Falk on this point.
Rabbi Falk maintains that a natural looking wig is sinful. The Rebbe thinks one should purchase the most beautiful wig.
In addition, long wigs have not been forbidden by rabbonim in yeshivish and the Lubavitch communities.
Kindly do not preach ideas or pose questions to Lubavitchers that go against the Rebbe's position and that are not in line with the psak of Lubavitcher rabbonim.

That being said, on to the next point. You persist and insist on assuming the worst of Jewish women. You make it clear that your mind is made up about their base motivations. Perhaps this is why you have failed to make inroads regarding tznius in your community. Jude, me thinks you are interpreting the Rebbes words to suit your feelings. The Rebbe was interested that women cover their hair, and to make it easier, he wanted women to wear shaitels that do not make them 'nebby', rather fashionally attired and modest, this DOES NOT mean that long and other 'Claire' custom made to the tune of four $g's was what the Rebbe saw as being best. Common sense is needed here, the Rebbe would never have pushed human hair and other imodest styles

[hishtatchus]

Human hair is not immodest.

[yehonasan]

Originally posted by Bittul
Sorry - your feelings don't count when a Rebbe has already made a statement about that. That's how we learn when we need to modify our feelings - if Torah says differently.

I think you mean to say "when your Rebbe".

[pretzel999]

Originally posted by hishtatchus
Human hair is not immodest. Human hair shaitels, (of today)while technically ''mutter' according to some poskim, go against the spirit of the law, basically defeating the purpose of hair covering if one looks the same OR better, don't you think? (edited by cyberlub)

[stamayid]

What is the spirit of the law? What is the purpose of hair covering and how do you know it?

[EtzChaim613]

I have read different opinions. There are opinions ranging from hair covering must be detectable to the entire world to only the woman has to know her hair is covered.

Rav Ovadia Yosef does not allow shaitels at all. He prefers hats, snoods, and tichels. In yeshivish circles snoods and shaitels seem to be preferred and hats seem uncommon. In other Chassidic circles a hat or tichel is worn over the sheital. In Chabad shaitels are the preferred method. I guess that means that the Rebbe holds that only a women needs to know her hair is covered. But, maybe someone can enlighten us.

P.S. I don't believe that the Torah considers human hair to be immodest in Jewish law or all women (unmarried women too) would be required to cover their hair from age 3 or at least from bas mitzvah. Since this is not the case, it implies that a married woman's hair becomes an eirvah to other men upon marriage. There certainly would be a case to discourage sheitals because of the great cost or to ban a woman making a sheital with her own hair, but I think one will be hard pressed to ban human hair sheitals outright, unless you hold by Rav Ovadia Yosef.

[hishtatchus]

I heard once that covering the hair after marriage is to "make up" for the loss of modesty that comes through marriage; this would seem to imply that the hair covering is for the woman only.

[Bittul]

Originally posted by yehonasan
I think you mean to say "when your Rebbe".

okay jo - If that's how you want it to be, fine. But I would suggest that if you plan on being treated respectfully while being even minutely disrespectful to the Lubavitcher Rebbe, I think you have the wrong online forum. There are other forums where you can post that way.

[pretzel999]

Originally posted by Bittul


okay jo - If that's how you want it to be, fine. But I would suggest that if you plan on being treated respectfully while being even minutely disrespectful to the Lubavitcher Rebbe, I think you have the wrong online forum. There are other forums where you can post that way. Bittul, the official represantative of the K.G.B. censor??
My dear friend I find many of your posts obnoxious and partisan, but I STILL BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO YOUR OPINION. Please be kind enough to allow others to disagree with you, we are not in Communist Russia anymore
Are you petrified of someone questioning your beliefs??

[yehonasan]

Bittul: disrespectful? Where? b/c I don't hold according to other participants' interpretation of what the Rebbe said?

Furthermore, I don't think it is clear exactly how the Rebbe would address the issue of the high cost of natural hair sheitels as compared to the now good quality synthetics.

Good Shabbos!

[Bittul]

pretz, that's right - he has a right to express himself, and I have right to express my disgust at someone treating the Rebbe disrespectfully. He's more than welcome to stay (not that I have a say in that) - but not necessarily is he welcome to respect.

jo, I haven't noticed the Rebbe's words being subject to interpretation. So it's either you follow what the Rebbe said, or you don't. That's fine. But at a Chabad board, the Rebbe stands supreme.

[iamachassid]

yehonosan, two points you seem to have missed about a custom 1: it's much more comfortable
2: it holds better so it might last longer and be cheaper iin the long run

[mendelp]

Yehonoson. I not aware of any sicha or letter, in which the Rebbe places any limitations on what type of sheitel one can wear. If you do please point it out.

[iamachassid]

I think getting a custom can be (yet another) issue of short term vs. long term spending. To get a cheaper one would save money now but ultimately may end up costing more than a custom with the upkeep. I think if someone has the money to lay out they should spend more on a custom because it will ultimately save money, energy, time, etc., etc. But if they don't have the money to lay out they should put it (high) on the list of things to get when they do and not feel bad or pressured until then.

[noahidelaws]

Shaitels for women with large heads are prohibitively expensive, unlike hats for men with large heads.

[BrookAve]

A women with a big head needs consultation. IF the sheitel isnt styled correctly, it will look like a hair helmet.

[Jude]

Shaitels for women with large heads are prohibitively expensive

that's news to me
AFAIK sheitels are not priced by size

[noahidelaws]

I think they must be custom-made

[Jude]

neither are custom-made sheitels priced differently based on one's head size
someone with an unusual head size, whether small or large or oddly shaped, or odd hairline, might opt for a custom made sheitel but AFAIK the majority of women who buy custom made sheitels do not do so because of unusual head sizes but because of beautifully made sheitels that are very comfortable and extremely longlasting

[WanderingJew]

As far as what the Rebbe says about sheitels-here's something to think about
..The Rebbe strongly encouraged women wearing sheitels as the preferred head covering, and in his own words:
"Especially nowadays, when one is able to purchase a sheitel that is just as nice or EVEN NICER than one's own hair!....

Clearly the Rebbe would be proud that this mitzva is precious to so many of us, and that women do care to wear a beautiful sheitel, each according to their means.

DOES BEING FRUM AND CHASSIDISH HAVE TO MEAN LOOKING DOWDY, OLD AND UNKEMPT??

When will people realize how beautiful it is when Jewish women are in touch with their femininity, and go to all lengths to cover their heads proudly, with a sheitel that they feel good to wear, instead of wrapping their heads in any old tichel or scarf, (which don't stay on too well anyway)?

Granted, some women/sheitel machers & companies do go overboard, and most custom sheitels are a small fortune, but as long as this mitzva is being done, i think that's the whole point!

If someone can afford an expensive sheitel, that's great! Enjoy!
It's definitely worth it. :)

[Torah613]

Are you implying that a nicer/more expensive shaitel is a mitzvah?

[RebYid]

Maybe even in the yva"y catagory!

[iamachassid]

Jude, I think ppl. who have special size heads don't have much of a choice to get a custom shaitel or not, a regular wouldn't fit or sit right.
RebYid, do you mind telling us what yva"y is?

[hishtatchus]

yehareg ve'al yaavor

[WanderingJew]

Torah613:
NO, i dont mean spending more on a sheitel is a mitzva, only that you should look at the bright side of this: It's money being spent on a very powerful mitzvah, and a mitzva that was very precious to the Rebbe, through which many brachos are drawn down to one's family and children.

People spend hundreds and thousands on seforim, menorahs, shabbos candlesticks and all sorts of Judaica..Why is this mitzva any different? If someone can afford it, why shouldn't they spend whatever they want on a beautiful, natural-looking sheitel,( which cannot be compared to the cheaper synthetic ones)?

[iamachassid]

btw, you'll be surprised at how beautiful and natural the vast majority of shaitels look these days!

[Chabadnika]

I think it's also important to remember that a lot of women struggle with this mitzvah and if they have the means to make it easier by going for the best possible sheitel to make them feel comfortable and good about keeping this mitzvah, then that's perfectly fine, and commendable. There is no reason to make a difficult and unfamiliar mitzvah even more challenging by purchasing a headpiece that is not comfortable both physically and emotionally. This is not a matter of women being superficial and competitive, it's about natural feelings that can and do come up as issues for people.

So for those who might be acting a bit insensitively and calling women bichlal or specific women mentioned here unkind names, I believe it is most improper to fault someone for these natural and healthy feelings that go along with many of the anxieties of life. Perhaps those people cannot understand where these feelings are coming from, but they are indeed valid, as the Rebbe was able to empathize through his comments regarding sheitels, as well as documented stories of the Rebbe helping women to purchase beautiful wigs. It does not sound from the letters and sichos that the Rebbe advocated negating these feelings of discomfort, but rather, he promoted doing actions that would address these feelings and hopefully eliminate them naturally.

Moshiach now! :lchaim:

[WanderingJew]

Right on! I totally agree.
Wearing a sheitel should be as comfortable and pain-free as humanly possible.

[roza]

on ebay the sheitlach are cheaper...

[roza]

the following is from the other forum:


Having been inside the wig business for longer than I would like to reveal, I will tell you it is not unlike the Kashrut industry.We all would like to believe that the more we pay, the better it will be, but so much of the business is marketing (or shekker).

First of all many many of the "European" wigs do come from Indian hair. (Trust me, it is not hard to tell the difference). Indian hair is very good quality, Indians are technically Caucasian and the hair has a very nice texture. Until the early 90's or so, the most expensive Y*ffa and Ge*rgie wigs boasted "Indian hair".

Many "European" hair wigs also come from South American hair. All are treated to give that "silky" feel that is so valued. This of course contributes
to tangling that is often a problem with "European" wigs. Many that claim to be undyed are actually dyed and permed too. (Again it is easy to tell if you know what to look for).

The least expensive hair comes from the Far East, that is China and Korea with the latter being preferable for its thicker texture and ability to take a perm (most wigs have at least a body wave). I have seen quite a few wigs in recent years that were a mixture of Korean and Indian hair, wigs that were made to sell for $500-1000.

I have sold Chinese hair wigs from Ge*rgie that were suggested to retail for $750 and I have also seen cheap Chinese hair wigs for $29 downtown. I have seen $2000 "custom Euro" hair wigs that were definitely Indian hair. Often the same factory makes an identical wig for both Jewish and non Jewish labels. One is designed to sell for $200 and the other for $29.

After all my years in business, I am still not convinced that synthetic sheitals look bad. They are easy to care for and impervious to weather.
All of the newscasters on TV wear them as do many moviestars, performers and professional business women who want to look perfectly polished but do not have time to sit for beauty appointments.

I have not seen too many European "customs" that I think look better than cheap synthetics. Maybe they feel silky, but who is touching your head??
Personally I always wear blends. They look nice, hold up great and have body and bounce like "hair".

Generally the Jewish manufacturers DO offer a higher quality wig than the downtown vendors, but not always. Most of the benefit is in the cap construction and not neccessarily the hair quality. A lot of the wig business is no different than Kedem Grape juice vs. Welch's. That is the only difference is in the marketing.

I am seeing sheital machers advertising that they are under a certain Rabbi's certification that the sheitals they sell absolutely do not contain Indian hair. I am wondering if the Rabbis who give the hashgacha are going to Russia to supervise the purchasing of the hair for the manufacturers or if it is like any other manufactured product that is under hashgacha, that they rely upon the word of the manufacturer in order to certify the product.

Anyway, I really have been wanting out of the sheital business completely for a couple of years now. I think this Indian hair thing is the last straw for me. It is really too crazy out there.

[stwill]

I have not seen too many European "customs" that I think look better than cheap synthetics. Maybe they feel silky, but who is touching your head??

I totally disagree with this statement. I wore non-custom Sheitlach for many years, until I was convinced by family and friends to splurge on a "European custom". I found the difference amazing. The custom is much easier to take care of and can go much longer between settings and still look decent.

First of all many many of the "European" wigs do come from Indian hair. (Trust me, it is not hard to tell the difference). Indian hair is very good quality, Indians are technically Caucasian and the hair has a very nice texture.

I don't quite understand this paragraph. So is there a difference, or isn't there?

[Jude]

what do you mean by "custom" and non-custom"?

communication regarding sheitels has become quite ridiculous!

the REAL definition of "custom" means made especially for you - your head is measured and the cap is made to fit your head, and you examine swatches of hair and pick what you like, and the sheitel is assembled

and what does "semi-custom" mean? who knows?! it can mean that you have a choice of small, medium, large caps and you pick the one that's closest to your head and have it adjusted
it can mean that the hair is already in the sheitel and you pick some additional highlights
I'm sure there are other meanings ...

now we have the oxymoron of "box custom" which is like saying "up down"

either it comes out of the box, which means it is not individualized or it's customized for you

so we get hybrids, i.e. yes, it comes out of the box so the cap was not made for you and the hair was not picked by you, but you can pick highlights and have them added to the non-customized sheitel

this misuse of words ends up hurting the customer, because "custom" sounds wonderful, just what we want, and we're willing to pay for a "custom sheitel" but what's customized about it?

[stwill]

"custom" nowadays supposedly means European hair.

[Jude]

:rolleyes:

[stwill]

Jude - You can roll your eyes, if you like. That's what the Sheitel Macher told me about three years ago when I asked about the meaning of "custom from a box". She said that regular human hair Sheitlach are from places like India, China and Korea, and the so-called "customs" are made from European hair.

I'm not denying that the prices are unjustly high, but I just wanted to point out that I personally found a real difference. (and this was before the AZ issue came up.)

[Jude]

the eye roll is merely to express annoyance at the misuse of words (not by you personally)
if "custom" means "European hair" then by all means, let these particular sheitels be called "European hair sheitels" but not "custom"!

all I'm saying is, our words should express the emes

[shmuliksma]

There are shaitel machers (ie: Chana kurinsky wigs) that are very affordable, durable and beautiful! The Rebbe wants us to look like Hashems daughters....it doesnt need to cost a fortune and it doesnt need to be indian hair...I know Chana does a great job, has a hechsher on her wigs, has deals for shluchos and what not...:smile:

[shmuliksma]

European hair shaitels are European hair a custon shaitel means it was made custom to fit your head!

[hishtatchus]

I second CK wigs! (718) 221-9221

[orderquality]

Hi,
We are Order Quality wigs Inc. and we offer to clients Euro custom wigs at prices between 500-850$ especially for people who cannot afford beautiful wigs. Our wigs sell for double in the stores and we are trying to help those that want a great wig but cannot afford to pay .
Thank you
Laurie
1-877-676-7337

[batya]

while these may not last you quite as long as a human hair shaitel, not only are they in some very fashionable styles, but they can easily be styled.

http://amphigory.com/wigs.html (dont be alarmed by the colors you may see..remember, these are used for theater and costumes, and many different colors are needed to properly reflect different characters!)

the wigs i use from this site are not for every day use(since im not married!:laugh:) but are used instead for costumes and theater, which give these things a sound beating after all of the heat, sweat and movement(and lets not forget the styling products...).

the fiber they are made out of is fairly resilient, withstanding low heat, gentle brushing, multiple washes, dyes and repeated styling.


to see what someone is able to do with those synthetic wigs, and for a little information about them, i redirect you here; http://www.pettingzoowigs.com/wiggallery.html

the odds that most of you will be familiar with the shows or characters she has listed is minimal, so simply click around and see her work, it will give you a good idea of what is possible with synthetic hair wigs.

have fun!

[mammahanna]

Just went the fall/bandana way. Got a cheap fall and some amazing pre-tied bandanas from http://www.millineryshop.net . I am SO set now!:tongue: