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Yankel Nosson
08-05-2004, 10:57 AM
In the Chof Menachem Av maamer of 5723 (chelek 4 in the old books -- "V'ya'ancha v'yar'ivcha...") pnimiyus Hatorah is likened to mann. And just as the mann left the bnei Yisrael hungry ("as though they didn't eat"), so too does pnimiyus haTorah generate hunger. In ois B the Rebbe states the explanation attached below. Maybe someone could elaborate on it?

lambda
08-05-2004, 12:12 PM
Since pnimiyus haTorah speaks about things we can not directly understand (all of our understanding of them is through physical things) it only gives a feeling of yedias hametzius. Whereas, for example, when one is learning something in halachah, the discussion is about physical things and situations he can see with his own eyes and therefore he can directly grasp the ideas being discussed more easily and it is possible for him to get hasagas hamehus in this study. One is often more superficially satiated when studying things that he can 'grasp' and feel he has mastered, which is often not the case in pnimiyus haTorah.

RebLazer
08-05-2004, 01:06 PM
Later the Rebbe says that the same distinction between the exoteric dimension of Torah and its esoteric dimension also applies to pnimius haTorah.
Thus, not all study of chasidus creates hunger. The Rebbe speaks there of two types of study: one which can indeed lead to a satiated (full) heart (since it is readily comprehensible, and it affects ones emotions), and a second which is far more abstract, and thus too removed to have a salutary affect on one's character.

Gevurah
08-05-2004, 01:44 PM
Lam... I did not realise you returned.....I though you were moving on to that other board where they have those avant garde avatars...

see the mamar as developed "prior" in Or Hatorah #5 or maybe it is #6...

lambda
08-05-2004, 02:12 PM
I got tired of being avant garde here so I went there to be a traditionalist.

Bittul
08-06-2004, 09:44 AM
YN, metzius and mehus are terms that date back to the Rambam's Moreh Nevuchim. You may want to look there for the first definition of what they are.

In short, the metzius is the reality. The mehus is the qualities of that reality.

I know bacteria causes disease. That is the Metzius. I don't know why it specifically does that. That would be the Mehus.

We know that there had to be an Or Ein Sof derived from Atzmus. That is the Metzius, we know that Or Ein Sof exists. We don't know the Mehus, what it's qualities are or why it HAD to come into being - only that Hashem willed the creation of the world that way and in this seder hishtalshelus. Knowing that "why?" would be part of knowing the Mehus. I think the Rambam gives 4 areas of knowledge on any Metzius that make up its Mehus.