Yud-tes Kislev/What is Chassidus?

[Jude]

A friend of mine who was new to and interested in Lubavitch, wanted to know about other Chassidic groups and their views. They asked a number of different people (maybe Ger, Bovov) what their Chassidus was about, and didn't get much of an answer, maybe something about having a Rebbe, a certain way of dress.
Now it's a pity that those Chassidim didn't know more about their Chassidus, and there's a lot more to their Chassidus than those people knew, yet Chabad Chassidus is far more developed a Chassidus than any other - obviously, it's chochma, bina, daas ...
In this thread, I'd like to ask you what Chabad Chassidus, or put another way - what being a Lubavitcher, means to you?

It's really important to know what we're about, and what we stand for. There are many answers to this question, I can come up with a bunch. Strangely, in Twerski's "Not Just Chassidus" (which I mentioned in another thread, I have no idea where ...) which I looked at again today, he says in the Epilogue that he's had a tough time coming to a definition of Chassidus. He comes up with a number of possibilities but dismisses each one, saying nah, that's in Torah anyway (like ahavas Yisrael), and concludes it's like looking through different pieces of colored glass, i.e. another view on life. He strongly denounces those (I bet he means Chabad) who think their Rebbe is the "best." He really doesn't know what pnimiyus ha'Torah is, which besides being really surprising considering his background, is a lesson to us:
If a proud scion of a Chassidic dynasty doesn't know what Chassidus is, how clear are we about what it is?

[rebyoel]

You remind of a booklet I've seen a few years ago published by little-known group of Poilishe Chassidim, on the cover was written "Pnimi" (i.e. for "insiders" only). After many pages trying to figure out what was the difference between them and other non-Chassidim, they conclude that all that's left today is "Emunas Tzaddikim" and the "Levish" (i.e. shtreimel and white socks). That's what makes you a Chassid.

CHABAD-CHASSIDIM IN PREVIOUS GENERATIONS

There is no question that we cannot compare ourselves to the Chassidim in past generations. How many people today Daven B'avodah or have "Ahavah B'ta'anugim"?...

So what's the difference between us and 'them' today? I think the main difference can be summed up in one word: Bittul.

Anyone that has gone through the Lubavitch school system knows that at the end of the day it's not themselves that matter, not their personal Shleimus, not even their Gan Eden. All that matters, all that a person should strive for is to fulfill Hashem's will. They will always ask themselves: "What am I here for? How can I affect as many people as possible? How can I be mashlim the Kavana?"

Case in point: A Shliach in I know personally once did a Seminar together with Aish. Hundreds of people showed up and it was very successful. As the last people were leaving, the Aish Rabbi whispered into his ear: “Dovid, could you imagine what kind of Olam Haba awaits us after an evening like this?…”

Now an average person reading this post won’t even understand what is funny about this story. But any Lubavitcher reading it won’t be able to hold back a chuckle.

Since when do we do Mitzvos for Olam Haba? When we go on Mivtzoim and have a successful afternoon, we don't go back thinking what a great reward we will reap for this Mitzvah, rather, we have genuine Simchah because of the Mitzvah that THOSE people have begun doing.

That’s why we find it so easy and natural to go out on Shlichus. So who cares if I won’t have such a good life, who cares if I won’t have Shleimus in this spiritual area or another. Nor do we think about our Gan Eden. As long as we are fulfilling the purpose of our creation -- and bringing the world closer to the fulfillment of it’s purpose, we’re all for it. This is similar to Avodas Hashem driven by love, not al mnas lekabel pras. In other circles this type of Avoda is reserved for Gedolim.

Even if many us fail to achieve the ideal of going on Shlichus, and we take it easy and enjoy Olam Hazeh (or Olam Haba…), we feel guilty.

[Jude]

terrific!

[blackhorse]

Yashar Koach! Amazing explanation.

[Jude]

In reading over your post Reb Yoel, I see that you actually explained what it means to be Chassidish, which - since you wrote it - has become a separate thread.

This thread addresses, not what being Chassidish is, but what CHASSIDUS is. Neither bittul, nor livush, nor emunas tzaddikim explain what CHASSIDUS is, rather - what a Chassid is or does.
So the question again is: how do you define Chassidus? Common questions are: nigleh - nistar? never heard of it. I thought there's just Torah, i.e. Gemara (and a few other things ... ). What do you mean by new revelation?
A VERY COMMON remark is: Oh, you mean the gedolim before the Baal Shem Tov were missing something?
Or a variation on the remark is: You mean you know something the Rambam didn't know?
Or, the all time winner: You can't tell me that roshei yeshivos and gedolim of today are lacking because they don't learn Chassidus!

[Jude]

In the Ha'Yom Yom of 25 Teves, it says that Chassidus is to enable man to leave the restrictions of the material world. Mitzrayim had to be broken, and then Bnei Yisrael had to leave it. The Chassidic "yetzias Mitzrayim" involves purifying and correcting, stepping OUT of worldly limitations while REMAINING in the world.

This means that while functioning WITHIN the world, we must transcend its limitations. We are supposed to see the emes - that the world, in and of itself, is GOOD, because it is what Hashem wants. How do we do this? Through the avoda of Chassidus.

This is one of the big differences between Chabad and other frum hashkafos, because others look at the world as a necessary evil, as a place to earn as many credits as we can (through mitzvos) to earn the best possible gan eden.

[ChachChach]

<< Common questions are: nigleh - nistar? never heard of it. I thought there's just Torah, i.e. Gemara (and a few other things ... ). >>

there are four ways of interpreting the torah. they are: pshat, remez , drush and sod, otherwise known as PaRDeS. chassidus is part of the level of sod-which are the most hidden secrets of the torah.

<<What do you mean by new revelation? >>

It says about chassidus that "or vichayus nafsheinu nitan lunu" "the light and life of our souls was given to us." a new revelation means that its not something new-its just a revelation on a subject already there, a different way of looking at things. one example given is flicking on a light switch. after you turn on a light, the room is exaclty the same as before. the only difference is now you have a light shining. chassidus isnt a new torah-it just adds life and light to what we already have. it teaches us how to devlope real fear and love of Hashe, so the mitzvos we do are real, not just stam acts.


<<A VERY COMMON remark is: Oh, you mean the gedolim before the Baal Shem Tov were missing something?
Or a variation on the remark is: You mean you know something the Rambam didn't know?>>

no connection to them:) chassidus was revealed bc of our lack, not bc they were lacking something (im talking about the real gedolim, not just someone who memorized a couple of blatts and paskined some shailos). as the generations continued, we sank deeper and deeper into the darkness of golus. the memory of what revealed elokus looked like, like they had in the time of the beis hamikdash, was fading away. we needed something to wake us up.

at the time of the Baal Shem Tov, the Jews had just gone through such massive tzaros. pogroms, killings, and massacres were commonplace. plus, there were major divisions among the simple people and the learned people. in short, it was not a happy situation. the Jews were in a state of faint-and the Baal Shem Tov appeared to revive them. its a well known concept that when someone's in a faint, you whisper their name to wake them up. the Baal Shem Tov, whose name is Yisreol, was like a little whisper to wake up the people.

and so, with all this darkness and suffering, we needed something that would add light and life to our lives. in short, that's why chassidus was revealed-bc we desperately needed it.

on a more positive note, there is another reason for the revelation. when Moshiach comes, we'll all learn the deepest secrets of the Torah. In order to prepare for this, to be to understand what's going to be flying around, Chassidus was revealed.
a moshol is given by the Rebbe about this. when you're preparing to go to a wedding, you don your best clothes and pearls a while before, and not as you walk throught the doorway of the hall. since we're in the millenia right before Moshiach, its appropriate that we prepare a bit. Hence, the revelation of Chassidus, which is part of the new concepts that Moshiach will teach.

<<Or, the all time winner: You can't tell me that roshei yeshivos and gedolim of today are lacking because they don't learn Chassidus!>>
everyone needs chassidus. if they dont have it, they're lacking something. think about it this way-if they're managing fine without it, think about how great they'll be with it. chassidus reveals the most lofty secrets of the torah, teaches you all about Hashem and how you connect to Ein Sof (Ein sof-translation: without end, a term used to describe Hashem).

[ChachChach]

in chassidus itself, there are two subdivisions. there is chagas-using your emotions directly. this is sometimes refered to as chassidus klolieus (general chassidus). then there's chabad, or chassidus that deals with the intellect, using your chochma, bina and da'as to attain emotions. sometimes, this is called chassidus protie'os (specific chassidus).

during the times of the ba'al shem tov, there was a need to give the jews at that time a powerful burst of chayus. they needed a jolt of energy to get them going. this was chagas. the basic theory is that through the connection to a rebbe, a person can achieve the ahava and yirah. they interpret the posuk of "tzadik be'emunaso yich'yeh" (a tzaddik lives through his emunah) as "tzadik be'emunaso yi'cha'ye" (a tzadik, through his emunah, gives life).

chabad, on the other hand, emphasizes intellect. a person acheives the midos through hard work. this is the avoda of our generation. our job now is to work on ourselves. there are no free rides. this is the advantage of chabad. since its achieved through hard work, its permeates a person more. its affects are stronger and permanent.

a mushul to illustrate this is as follows: a person is wondering around in a deep, dark, black, creepy forest. its getting colder, darker, the animals are coming out, and he needs something to protect himself. he'll need something powerful that'll help him deal with the situation RIGHT NOW. so he'll light a fire with gasoline. it wont last long-it'll flare up, but eventually die down. however, for that moment-its what he needs.
however, to make it through the night, he cant keep on lighting gasoline. he needs to build something more permanent. so he'll collect sticks, and build a fire, slowly, of course, but it'll last longer, and help him through the night.

[Jude]

I will make one correction in what are otherwise informative posts. Chassidus is NOT SYNONYMOUS with sod, kabbala.

In the maamar "Inyana shel Toras Ha'Chassidus," (translated as "On the Essence of Chassidus"), written by the Rebbe (highly recommended reading/learning), the Rebbe explains that there are four levels as you said, and Chassidus is the FIFTH level, similar to the four levels of the neshama (nefesh, ruach, neshama, chaya) and the fifth - yechida. This fifth level, is the ESSENCE of the Torah. There is the Chassidic understanding of pshat, the Chassidic understanding of remez, of drush, and yesod.

In this maamar, the Rebbe uses the tefilla of Modeh Ani to illustrate this. The Rebbe explains the pshat, remez etc. of Modeh Ani, and then goes over it again, showing the Chassidic understanding of each.

The essential idea of Moshiach is yechida, and this explains why the spreading of the teachings of Chassidus (yechida of Torah) brings the coming of Moshiach (the yechida of the Jewish people). Because although with the coming of Moshiach many wondrous things will happen like Bnei Yisrael and the Shechina will be redeemed from galus, and all the Jewish people will be great sages who will know things that are now concealed, and there will be no jealousy etc. and an abundance of good things, and the goyim will no longer rule over us, and the sheim Hashem of Havaya will be revealed, the Rebbe says ALL THESE THINGS ARE ONLY CONSEQUENCES OF THE ESSENTIAL POINT =YECHIDA OF MOSHIACH.

There's much more in the maamar, and I can't say I understand it all, but what I do get is that Chassidus is NOT just another APPROACH or DERECH to Torah. It is the CORE of Torah.

[ChachChach]

you're right. i stand corrected. :)we learned something about this.

[ChachChach]

taken from the article "the soul of existence" by rabbie y.y. paltiel

...Simply stated, chassidus is the neshama, the soul. the whole purpose of chassidus, and the entire mission of the Baal Shem Tov and his successors, is to make the neshama real and practical for every Jew. Every jew possess a neshama-this is a fact. it is conceivable, however, that a jew can go through his entire life and never express his jewishness through his G-dly soul. instread he will be jewish on the basis of intellect (which even the animal soul has), or emotions that the animal soul may inspire, bc yiddishkeit can be practiced with a selfish motivation, ie, to receive reward or to guard against punishment. is is essential to chassidus that the neshama which exists within the reality of each jew be accessed and revelaed and become the basis for his practical existence.

what is the neshama and how does a jew reach his soul? there is really a very simple answer to this question which is that the soul is the instinct which exists in each jew from birth, to whom yiddishkeit, torah, mitzvos and his relationship to Hashem are natural and instinctive to him.

to elucidate further: on the conscious level, we are natrurally attracted to that which satisfies our animal self, be it food, clothing, a home, or other material objects that provide us with pleasure. no one has to teach us to have an appetite for these things, bc they are the basic condition of our animal soul. in very much the same way, our G-dly soul naturally gravitates to G-dliness and actually gains pleasure from it. to the G-dly soul, being and acting Jewish is as simple and as pleasureable as easting tasty foods and indulging in other physical activities is satisfying and natural to the animal soul. obviously there is a great difference between the experience of worldy pleasures and G-dly pleasures and therefore the dynamics of the pleasures are different, yet basically they are the same. to use traditional chassidic terminology, our neshamas have the perspective of elokus b'pshi'tus, ie Gdliness as the first thought. reality, as far as the neshama is concerned, is Hashem. everything other than Hashem is a type of reality that the neshama has to learn.

the Baal Shem Tov taught that this neshama truth exists in potential within each person. the Baal Shem Tov didnt create this truth, as it always existed, he merely expounded upon it and made it available for everyone to know, understand , and experience. the purpose of the Baal Shem Tov teaching us about this was not in orer to study philosopy, but rather that we apply this knowledge to real life. the Baal Shem Tov insisted that the reality of the neshama be realistic to everyone. every jew possesse a jewish soul and is capable and therefore obligated to access this jewish soul and live Gdliness on the level where Gdliness is natural.

[ChachChach]

basically, in short, its like this. chassidus deals with the jew on a neshama level, which means something along the lines of "you're a jew-you are automatically connected to Hashem."

other types of avoda start from bottom up. they present a person, they present Hashem, and then say "go for it! try to reach as high as you can, you might not make it to Hashem, but at least you tried." chassidus, on the other hand, operates along the lines of "this is Hashem, this is you. since you are a jew, you are connected to Him. you have to work on this connection, you have to develop it to its fullest, but no one can ever take away from the fact that you are connected to begin with, just by the fact that you're a jew."

[Rachmiel]

Concerning the question: "what does being a Lubavitcher mean to you?"

For me, the Lubavitcher world view combines all aspects of Judaism in one of the most logical presentations I've seen anywhere. It makes sense for the layman. Reasons are given. Borrowing the phrase "Haalot ha Nitzotzot" (elevating the sparks), I truly beleve that Chasidus ala Chabad allows each one of us to discover and fulfill Hashem's purpose for our being and allows us to sanctify the mundane, thereby bringing Moshiach closer. In my opinion, no other method or philosophy attains this stature. True, a mitzvah performed by any Jew brings Moschiach nearer; but only within the philosophy of Chabad does one find such an integrated approach to understanding the overall picture. And as a result, one wants to do more mitzvot.

Growing up in Brooklyn in the fifties and early sixties, I, like many from a secular home, went to an Orthodox Hebrew school (may HaShem bless my parents for sending me there) which took place after the regular New York City public school day. I believe that the Rabbi who ran it was a Bobover. And I give him tremendous credit. He taught me to read Hebrew and to Daven--and he instilled in me a burning desire to serve HaShem--all very, very important things. But he really did not get into the 'whys'. All we got was that "We are Jews and this is what Jews do."

When I first discovered Chabad (it wasn't too hard to do since we lived not too terribly far from Eastern Parkway), I was only 13. I had just been Bar Mitzvah and had made a new friend in Junior High School (PS-232) who had a brother who was at the 770 Yeshiva. He gave me a book, "The Philosophy of Chabad," and I read it as best I could. I did not understand most of it at the time but what I did comprehend made such an impression on me that I made up my mind that Chabad was the way to go. Why? Simply because it had, for lack of a better phrase, "a unified theory" concerning Judaism and the world. Now one may argue that a 13 year old has not been exposed enough to other viewpoints and simply cannot make an informed decision concerning which ideas are better than others. Maybe so. However, years later, and after having completed graduate school as a philosophy major, I can still make the same statement that I made many years ago. And it's simply this: either it works or it doesn’t. The Chabad Luvabitch worldview works—every aspect of it works. And I do not think that any other philosophy or group can make such a claim.

[Jude]

The HaYom Yom for 11 Adar II says that Chassidus includes two fundamental ideas:

1) understanding every halacha in its root and ultimate source in the spiritual plane, i.e. in the sefiros and levels of each world, as it's explained in Chassidus

2) understanding each halacha as it relates to one's avoda, i.e. even though it is a G-dly wisdom and intelligence and a law in the Torah, you still have to find some lesson in avoda to guide your conduct in your life in this world

Isn't that fascinating? The rest of the Torah-learning world learns Gemara or Shulchan Aruch mostly to fulfill the mitzva of Talmud Torah, as well as to know practical halochos (how to keep Shabbos, kashrus etc.). A Chassid learns Chassidus in order to know how to approach his study of nigleh.

He has two goals: 1) understanding the spiritual ideas behind the practical halacha, ex. who gets to buy the neighbor's field, and understanding this as Moshe taking the Torah away from the malochim and giving it to the Jewish people (I won't get into that whole discussion, it's long and very interesting) 2) Torah from the root meaning a lesson - what can we derive from this halacha to guide us in our avodas Hashem

[Jude]

*
question: when learning a sicha about Chasidus, are you learning Chasidus?

The Rebbe said scores of sichos on shleimus ha'aretz. Are these sichos pnimiyus ha'Torah? If not, what are they? What constitutes the study of pnimiyus ha'Torah?

* I started this in another thread, and realized it belonged here. ChabadFriend responded with the Ha'Yom Yom of the previous post

Leayis wrote: <<i think its nigleh ditorah. its meyusad on a halacha in shulchan aruch which is nigleh and the rebbe does not talk about chassidus in those sichos. Like the rebbe's hadran on a misechta. some of them are strictly nigleh.>>

[Leayis]

Jude,

i think my statement you quoted still stands. why would you think differently?

[Jude]

I agree with what you wrote, but still wonder: when learning a sicha about Chasidus, are you learning Chasidus?

it's not always clear-cut

[untervegens]

I don't understand the questions. The Rebbe spoke Chassidus, Nigleh, Drush, stories, political issues and many more. Obviously that the Rebbe spoke about these issues from a Torah/ Judaism perspective (i.e. shleimus ha'aretz - shin chof tes). But, when the Rebbe spoke nigleh, He spoke nigleh and not chassidus. When He said a Ma'amer chassidus, that wasn't nigleh (although the Rebbe used examples from nigleh in maamorim and sometimes explained a question in Nigleh with a chassidus answer.)

When the Rebbe spoke about Shleimus Ha'aretz, he would get into lengthy discussions about the "peace" process and point out the many faults in it (the oil fields in sinai and others) and not only quote the shulchan aruch. According to my understanding if one makes Birchas hatorah and doesn't learn anything besides a selected part of a sicha about shleimus haaretz in which there is no quote of Torah (which could be a few pages long) it would be a brocha levatolah.

[mendelp]

Originally posted by untervegens

When the Rebbe spoke about Shleimus Ha'aretz, he would get into lengthy discussions about the "peace" process and point out the many faults in it (the oil fields in sinai and others) and not only quote the shulchan aruch. According to my understanding if one makes Birchas hatorah and doesn't learn anything besides a selected part of a sicha about shleimus haaretz in which there is no quote of Torah (which could be a few pages long) it would be a brocha levatolah.
If one would study one of the perek in hilchos deos which is pure medicine would he have to make a birchas hatorah? would one be permitted to study it in the bathroom? R. SZ auerbach said that it (those perakim of rambam) is torah and it is assur to be studied in the bathroom. I fail to see why the sicha is any different

[poshut]

>According to my understanding if one makes Birchas hatorah and doesn't learn anything besides a selected part of a sicha about shleimus haaretz in which there is no quote of Torah (which could be a few pages long) it would be a brocha levatolah.<

Untervegens--
bist arup fun veg(ens)??!!

[Jude]

what about learning the pesukim in Tanach or the mishnayos/Gemaras about various idols, no bracha? in the bathroom? :confused:

[Leayis]

i once heard that in one of the olomeinu magazines in their chanukah issue they had written there the great ma'aleh of chanukah that its the best yom tov because you dont have to eat in a sukkah and your not limited to matzah (no chometz) IOW you can eat what you want, where you want and for eight long days. a misnagdisher derher.

[RebYid]

I always thought that was the maalah of Sh'vuos! :)

[Torah613]

Chanukah is 8 days...:)

[RebYid]

Shavuos you (or at least me!) don't have to go to work!

[untervegens]

Originally posted by Jude
what about learning the pesukim in Tanach or the mishnayos/Gemaras about various idols, no bracha? in the bathroom? :confused:

there is a difference between not needing birchas hatorah, and learning it in the bathroom.
No, I'm not arop fun vegens, the Rebbe spoke for a half hour for example about what different politicans from Israel and America were saying back and forth about the peace between Israel and Egypt. If you copy just those few pages from Sichos Kodesh without any quotes of Torah in them, I don't see why one should have to make Birchas Hatorah on that. Still these are the Rebbe's words, and even Sichas Chulin of the Rebbe are holy (at least to a Chosid), and for sure shouldn't be taken in to the bathroom!
I repeat that if one should not learn anything else, the birchas Hatorah would be levatolo.

The comparison to Tanach (!!!) and Talmud, and likewise Rambam, which is a Sefer Halochos Halochos, including those Prokim obviously, is based on what exactly??? Rav Auerbach did not say the same thing about someone reading a prescription written by the Rambam. Tanach is doch mamash Torah shebiksav. Mishnayos and Gemoro and Rambam, are Torah shebal peh. Sichos of the Rebbe in learning are Torah shebal peh, but when the Rebbe spoke about what this politician and that politician were saying, and how they were lying etc. etc.?!?!

Please some explanations, "chasidishe" hergeshim I am not interested in.

[mendelp]

>>but when the Rebbe spoke about what this politician and that politician were saying, and how they were lying etc. etc.?!?!<<
when mentioned in the context of a sicha (which by defenition is torah) yes it is torah as well.

[Jude]

if you look at excerpts of sichos in which the Rebbe discusses Israeli politics, you will see that it is replete with Torah quotes.

[untervegens]

Originally posted by mendelp
>>but when the Rebbe spoke about what this politician and that politician were saying, and how they were lying etc. etc.?!?!<<
when mentioned in the context of a sicha (which by defenition is torah) yes it is torah as well.

Is there a source to this?

[untervegens]

Originally posted by Jude
if you look at excerpts of sichos in which the Rebbe discusses Israeli politics, you will see that it is replete with Torah quotes.

If you look at excerpts of sichos in which the Rebbe discusses Israeli politics, you will see that there might be pages without any Torah quotes.

[RebYid]

Originally posted by mendelp
when mentioned in the context of a sicha (which by defenition is torah) yes it is torah as well.

Le'shitoscho, is ANYTHING the Rebbe ever said, in any context, NOT Torah?

[Jude]

I've read many excerpts from sichos regarding Israeli politics and haven't seen any without Torah quotes. In fact, the Rebbe says repeatedly, that his approach is based on Torah (whether on the first Rashi of Bereishis, or Shulchan Aruch etc.) Could you tell me where you see pages without Torah quotes?

The comparison to Tanach (!!!) and Talmud, and likewise Rambam, which is a Sefer Halochos Halochos, including those Prokim obviously, is based on what exactly???

the Alter Rebbe said, "When we used to hear a Torah discourse from the Rebbe - Reb Dov Ber, the Maggid of Mezritch - we saw this as the Oral Law, and when we heard a story from his mouth, this was our Written Law."

so "stam a story", not Torah, no Torah quotes, was regarded as the Written Law!

[poshut]

Untervegens__

what's with this misplaced ka'naos? past nisht far dir. drop it!

[Jude]

past nisht? what makes you say that?
I wasn't at all surprised by his comment.

[poshut]

why does he care to say that EVERY part of a sicha is torah?


What's bothering him?

[abiselseichel]

"Sichas Chulin shel Talmidei chachamim tzrichim limud"

[RebYid]

But is it Torah in the sense that it required a brocha before?

[Rachelle]

RebYid - in answer to your question it would appear obvious that definitely not. As for post 40 - "sichas chulin shel talmidei chachomim" - that is irrelevant. Take as an example: you haven't said brochos yet and meet the Rebbe (or any other talmid chochom) in the street or in Shuhl, and the Rebbe etc. wants to talk to you: do you first have to make birchas hatorah before speaking to him? Quite obviously not. Tzrichin limud simply means that serious consideration must be given to their words, they are not like everyone else's sichas chulin=dvorim beteilim or devorim shel mah bekach like discussing the weather or politics etc.; you can learn something of value from sichas chulin of t"ch, but not that it is Torah - rather Torah-sanctioned and Torah-approved talk etc.

[Rachelle]

to take this slightly further: if it would be as sugested by some in the category of talmud Torah, are you suggesting that the Rebbe or talmid chochom will be machshil, ch"v, the people they speak to who they know have not yet said birchas haTorah? Clealry not.

[Rachelle]

For that matter: why the need for pilpul? Those words are clearly called sichas CHULIN, precisely to distinguish them from sichas KODESH. If you should ask, how then could the Rebbe speak of such things on Shabbos etc. - it is because they are matters of public concern and mefakchin al tzorchei tzibur on Shabbos. No different than walking in street on Shabbos and seeing children trying to cross the street against red light etc. and cautioning them not to do so etc.

[Leayis]

a sicha of the rebbe is clearly torah. i dont remember ever the rebbe speaking about inyonim that were net torah. Israeli politics is not what the rebbe spoke about, he spoke about a halacha in shulchan aruch. there was never a time when the rebbe spoke stam sichas chulin at a farbrengen. there is no question that one needs to make birkas hatorah before learning any sicha of the rebbe.

rochelle, your example from meeting someone before the person having said birkas hatorah is a krume moshol. its not domeh klal uklal. if the person did not say brochos he is not allowed to speak at all.

[masbir]

if the person did not say brochos he is not allowed to speak at all.

source?????

[Leayis]

the first thing a yid is supposed to do in the morning is wash negel vasser and say birkas hashachar. not walk in the streets and talk to talmidei chachomim. so if a talmid chochom would meet someone in the street and start talking to this person about inyonim of "chulin" it would be a michshol to the person who has not said birchas hashachar yet, just as it would be a michshol to talk to him in torah matters, kishitas rochelle.

[masbir]

You are saying Halacha here. or Chasidisha Hergesh? Do you know that most Jews say Berchas hashachar in shul not immediatly when they wake up. If you dont answer strict halacha, there is no point to answer me.

[Leayis]

what has this got to do with chassidishe hergesh? i am saying in responce to rochelle's krume example of the rebbe or any talmid chochom speaking with someone a sichas chulin that it would be a michshol if we consider it torah to which i am saying that the same michshol would be if you consider it chol, because to talk to someone stam azoy sichas chol before davening is not halachically accepted. and yes i know that others say it in shul.

[Jude]

"When I sit in my room, secluded and learning some drush of Chassidus, I actually feel atzmus Ein Sof (the essence of the Infinite One). I have recognition of the atzmus Ein Sof at that time, for I can envision to myself the aspect of Ein Sof…although I know my own lowliness and I do not want to boast, ch’v. I think no one should attribute this accomplishment to me, etc. This is what Chassidus accomplishes – the grasp of all these matters that are so lofty, etc.

"And although we learn in s’farim that there are lofty matters that cannot be perceived, such as the existence of the Creator, which is only by way of faith, Chassidus enables it to be grasped. Therefore I say this publicly, since this is what Chassidus truly accomplishes."

(p. 25 Toras Sholom)

[RebMoshe]

Originally posted by Jude

"And although we learn in s’farim that there are lofty matters that cannot be perceived, such as the existence of the Creator, which is only by way of faith, Chassidus enables it to be grasped. Therefore I say this publicly, since this is what Chassidus truly accomplishes."


This topic is interesting. I read through everything. Let me give an answer to the original question from a non-Chabad chassid (but which I really think Chabad agrees in susbstance.)

I will give a story as an intro to my answer. When the Kedushas Levi came home after his visit to the Rebbe Reb Ber, his father a misnagid asked him what he learned there. He said he had learned that there is a G-d. His f-i-l called the servant girla nd asked here if she knew there was a G-d. She said yes. To which the Kedushas Levi said, "She says, I know."

Chassidis is to instill in every Jew, even anashim pashatim, that there is a G-d and to serve Him. All the differences in the different groups is the method to get to that goal.

[shterna sara]

בס"ד

What is Chassidus?

I usually explain Chassidus, as kavayachol seeing the world and Torah from Hashem’s perspective. I give the example of a complicated machine, which has a lot of parts. Each one of us is one of those parts. For generations most Yiden had no need to know much about how or why the machine works, it was enough for them to learn how to do their part well, with the main focus being doing Hashem’s will. But as the generations became less batul to Hashem’s will, people began to focus more on what beautiful parts they became, and what great reward is in store for them. They began to look down at those “parts” which didn’t seem so beautiful. Also those “not so beautiful parts” themselves, who felt they had not attained perfection, felt despair and hopelessness.
As we became more self-absorbed – the sick child mashal - to enable us to get away from the focus on our own greatness, Hashem allowed the great secrets of what is accomplished by our mitzvahs, (which previously were available only to those of the spiritual caliber to internalize and comprehend them,} to be translated in intellectual, understandable; terms, available to every Jew! In other Chassidus, sparks of these understandings are made available, which inspire on an emotional level; in Chabad Chassidus this is an entire intellectual basis for these sparks of inspiration. We are being given a glimpse of what the “machine” is supposed to accomplish, and this is supposed to inspire us to do our job, for a goal greater than our own aggrandizement. The difference between performing in an audition, when your own success is paramount, and performing in a benefit performance for cancer patients, when you feel your success might help save lives. In the second case, you’re just as concerned about everyone else doing their part, as you are about your own – in the first, the others are your competitors! The kitrug is that we learn all this glorious stuff, and then go home and enjoy our pizza, or look down at our fellow Jews, or whatever. (Most of the ground up jewel is just spit up by the sick prince). I once heard a Lubavitch mashpia quoted as saying, that resahaim will go to Gehinnom for no more than 12 months, but Lubavitchers will go for 24 months, because with all the giluim we receive, our sins are more severe!
Surely each of us can only give over a facet pf the beautiful jewel that is Chassidus, but I’d appreciate comments, and getting more facets!

[Jude]

nice post!

I once heard a Lubavitch mashpia quoted as saying, that resahaim will go to Gehinnom for no more than 12 months, but Lubavitchers will go for 24 months, because with all the giluim we receive, our sins are more severe!

both that comment as well as the description in the following link are meant to be concluded with, "still and all, ashreinu mah tov chelkeinu!

http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?s=&postid=54800#post54800

[shterna sara]

thanks

[Jude]

Lik Sichos, vol. 30, p. 170

It was in fact the Alter Rebbe who annulled the kitrug (accusation) against the Magid and against publicizing Chasidus in general, with his mashal of the jewel from the king’s crown being ground up to possibly save the prince.

When in jail, the Besht and the Maggid came to him (as physical beings) and told him that when he got out of jail to continue teaching Chasidus as he had been doing, and even more so.

The Rebbe describes the diff. between other Chassidus and Chabad Chasidus and how they relate to the two reasons why despite previous limitations on the teaching of the secrets of Torah, the Arizal said it is now (in his time already) permissible and a mitzva to reveal these teachings.

1) there’s the revelation of pnimiyus ha’Torah where the main thing is knowing a point in brief (similar to the Mishna)

2) there's the revelation in a way where it’s explained at length (similar to Gemara)

Reason #1 to teach pnimiyus ha’Torah is it’s an “emergency,” and due to the increased darkness of galus, we desperately need Chasidus. For this reason, brief points are enough

Reason #2 to teach pnimiyus ha’Torah is to prepare for Moshiach’s coming and the revelation of pnimiyus ha’Torah that we’ll have then, and for this reason, brief points are not enough and we need great elaboration.

As opposed to the teachings of the Besht, the Magid and their students, which were all brief teachings, Chasidus Chabad explains things at great length in a way of chochma, bina, and daas.

The teachings of the Besht, Magid, and their students helped revive the prince and made tens of thousands of G-d fearing Jews, but when the Alter Rebbe began revealing Chasidus not just in points but in a way of harchava, this aroused a kitrug since it wasn’t vital (apparently) to “save” the prince. But the Besht and Magid told the Alter Rebbe to continue what he was doing and to do it in greater measure. And since they said this, it is incumbent on all Jews to prepare for Moshiach by learning pnimiyus ha’Torah davka in a way of understanding (i.e. Chabad).

Even those who think that learning Chabad Chasidus is not necessary, because he doesn’t think his spiritual life is in danger, and he thinks that learning nigleh and musar and the Chasidus of the Besht, Magid, and their students and their students’ students is enough to overcome the darkness, how can he absolve himself of this study (of Chabad Chasidus) when it’s a halacha in nigleh of Torah (hilchos Talmud Torah of the Alter Rebbe) that every person must learn the entire Torah including sod?

[Jude]

poster asks:

isn't the Chasidic explanation of anything the core explanation?

I don't think the Chassidic explanation can be defined as THE explanation. Pnimiyus and Nigleh deTorah are two integral and complementary parts of one whole.

the head, arms, legs etc. make up a body, yet Chasidus is called the "neshama" - the soul

anybody else?

[Jude]

here's the famous coal and pearls analogy

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/days-of-destiny/11.htm

[Maskil]

Yes, Chassidus is the neshama, but when there is a halachic issue, there must be a halachic resolution as well. Chassidus, as the neshama of both the problem and the resolution will have an insight into BOTH.

[Jude]

The Tzemach Tzedek asked the Alter Rebbe, “What is the main idea of Chassidus?” He did not ask what Chassidus was because he already knew that Chassidus was a G-dly study and understanding which contains the inner teachings of Torah. He wanted to know what was the principal idea of Chassidus.

The Alter Rebbe answered that the essential idea of Chassidus is to change the nature of one’s attributes – meaning not just to change one’s nature from bad to good, but even if one has a good nature, to change it, for nothing should be done simply because it’s one’s nature.

(Lik. Dibburim I, p. 56a)

[Jude]

http://thinkjewish.com/paltiel_series.html

a six tape series on What is Chassidus

[bocher'l]

I was on my Mivtzoim route, and someone asked what is chasidus.

I answered that it teaches us how to serve G-d...

but that only explains the Avodadike maamorim.... What about the haskolohdike ones?

[iskafya]

The Rebbe explains in "Kuntres inyono shel toras Ha'Chasiddus", that Chassidus is like the level of Yechida which is like a simple point (Nekudah Mufshetes), not one made up of different levels (Murkav). Therefore it is impossible to explain exactly what it is. It is like trying to explain what the Etzed Ha'Nefesh is, which is impossible.

Nevertheless it is possible to understand all the levels which are effused from it. Just like we can comprehend all the different faculty’s that are effused from the Etzed Ha'nefesh.

So when you responded that Chassidus teaches us how to serve hashem etc. you were correct, but that is not the essence of Chassidus. This is only one of the Inyonim that come out of Chassidus, just like we say that the Midos come from the Nefesh but are not the essence of what the Nefesh is.

Read the entire "Kuntres" to get a better understanding of this idea.

[Shmully]

Bocher'l, I think you are looking for a one-liner, for a person on your Mivtzoim route. Just like you told him the Avodah aspect of Chassidus in one line (Chassidus shows us how to serve G-d). I suggest a one-liner on the Haskolo aspect: Chassidus shows us how the physical world and the spiritual world are all one. All the profound ideas on this thread could be seen as elaborations of this theme. Even the Avodah of Chassidus, and especially the Torah of the rebbe, could also be summed up in this one line. The rest is commentary, let him (and us) learn!