Table=Mizbeach? Prove it!

[Esrog]

I have read many times the concept that the table we eat on is a mizbeach. What exactly does this mean and where does it say this and how? Does it mean that the food is an offering? If so, how and under what circumstances? Does it depend on what we do with the energy from the food after we eat it? I would be grateful for quotes from sichas (exact quote and exact sicha) in English as I am not fluent in other languages.

[Torah613]

For starters, see Kitzur Shulchan Aruch (Code of Jewish Law) 41:6 and 44:4.
Perhaps someone with time on their hands will translate.

[Yankel Nosson]

For starters, see Kitzur Shulchan Aruch (Code of Jewish Law) 41:6 and 44:4.
Perhaps someone with time on their hands will translate.No time. I just know the web :D

41:6 It is a mitzvah to bring salt to the table מצוה להביא על השלחן מלח
before breaking (the bread) קודם שיבצע
and to dip the bread ויטבול פרוסת המוציא
in the salt.* במלח
Because the table is like an altar (see Ch. 44:4) לפי שהשלחן דומה למזבח
and our food, a sacrifice. והאכילה לקרבן
It was said [Lev. 2:13]: ונאמר
"On all your sacrifices, על כל קרבנך
offer salt." תקריב מלח
* {The Shulchon Oruch HoRav (167:8) and the Mishnoh B'rurah (167:33) mention, that, according to Kabbalah, it is proper to dip the bread in the salt three times.}
And because our table is compared to an altar, ולפי שהשלחן דומה למזבח
it is preferable not to kill on it any insects (lit. a louse).

http://www.geocities.com/yona_n.geo/kizzur/kizzur41prn.html#6



44:4 It is customary to remove נוהגין להסיר
the knives from the table את הסכינים מעל השלחן
before grace, קודם ברכת המזון
or cover them, או לכסותן
for a table is like an altar. כי השלחן דומה למזבח
About the altar's [stones) ומזבח
it is said (Deut. 27:5]: נאמר
"You shall not lift up iron against them." לא תניף עליהם ברזל
For iron shortens man's life, לפי שהברזל מקצר ימיו של אדם
while the altar prolongs man's life. והמזבח מאריך ימי האדם
It is not proper ואינו בדין
to raise that which shortens שיונף המקצר
against that which prolongs. על המאריך
The table also prolongs man's life וגם השלחן מאריך ימיו של אדם
and atones for his sins ומכפר עונותיו
through offering hospitality. בהכנסת אורחים
[Sanhedrin 103b] praises the great power of hospitality, שגדול כחה של לגימה
that causes the Divine Presence (to rest in a home). שמשרה שכינה
In many places the custom is ונהגו בהרבה מקומות
not to cover (knives) on Sabbaths and festivals. שלא לכסותן בשבת ויום טוב
They are covered during the week, כי בחול מכסין אותן
because they are (signs) of Esau's power. מפני שהן כחו של עשו
However, on Sabbaths and festivals, ובשבת ויום טוב
neither Satan אין שטן
nor the forces of evil have power. ואין פגע רע
These customs of the Jews ומנהגן של ישראל
have the weight of Torah law. תורה היא

http://www.geocities.com/yona_n.geo/kizzur/kizzur44prn.html#4

[Esrog]

Thanks very, very much, Torah 613 and Yankel. This is very helpful. I also see it now it the translated Kitzzur Shulchon Oruch translated by Rabbi Eliyahu Touger which I have. Okay, so the table is likened to a mizbeach and the food resembles a sacrifice. But why? Why is it that when you eat it is like a sacrifice, especially since there is no guarantee that when a person eats that the food will be properly elevated, since, G-d forbid, the person could use the energy in the food to do something unholy, such as wasting time, bittel Torah or the like or even worse, G-d forbid? With a sacrifice there is a definite elevation of the substance sacrificed. It goes up to Hashem. With food, there is not the guarantee of elevation, only the potential, since it depends on what the person does with the food energy subsequently, such as studying Torah, doing mitzvas or so forth, or, G-d forbid, otherwise? At any rate, are there Chassidic texts that talk about this? What do they say? Give translation and exact source if possible. And what exactly does it mean that the table is a mizbeach?

[Yankel Nosson]

Everything you said: why couldn't it apply to a korban (sacrifice)? You offer up a korban, eat the meat, and then go off and do shtuss? In fact, through the neviim Hashem lets us know quite well how little he values empty sacrifices.

[zebra]

What about not sitting on a table because it's a Mizbeach, any source for this?

[Esrog]

Yankel—good point. But is it a perfect analogy? Yes, heaven has a low view of empty sacrifices. But in the case of a sacrifice on the altar, in general it is a very positive thing and a big aliyah in and of itself and hence we are eagerly waiting for the restoration of the Temple. The sacrifice does in fact go straight up to heaven, as we are taught that in the times of King Solomon the sacrifice was consumed by a fire of G-d in the shape of a lion and so forth. The material of the sacrifice goes right up to heaven. But in the case of eating, there is no guarantee of an aliyah in and of itself. It depends on what you subsequently use the food energy for. On the other hand, with a sacrificide on the altar, even if one later didn't treat the whole thing right, at least the sacrifice did in fact ascend. You can't say a sacrifice is not an aliyah. But it seems to me that you can say that the food does not ascend unless you use its vitality to serve G-d, talk Torah, pray. These are two separate things — eating, and then using the vitality to serve G-d. In the case of an actual sacrifice it is just a single entity — the sacrifice itself goes up in the act of offering it as a sacrfice. Food doesn't go up in the act of eating it, only afterward, if we act properly.

[LavDavka]

Zebra:
They stood on the mizbeyach, no?
Maybe someone can name sources for that minhag.

[Torah613]

Well, I'll try: See Yosef Ometz # 64, based on Sefer Chassidim # 920 (this courtesy of "Piskei Tshuvos" 167:6. He also brings a Kaf hachaim (#41), which I didn't find).

[Esrog]

Torah 613, I'm not familiar with those citations, what those texts are or what the references actually say and I don't have access to them right now. Could you give what they say, in English, and tell what those sforim are?

I am reminded of the old joke about a man who goes to prison. He is sitting in the prison dining hall and people are yelling out numbers and laughing. One yells out "38!" Everyone laughs. Another yells out "62!" Everybody laughs. Another yells out "41!" Everyone laughs. Finally, the new prisoner asks, "What does all this mean? What's going on?" One of the other prisioners then explains that they have all been there so long that by now they all know each other's jokes. So instead of repeating the old jokes, they have numbered them and tell just the numbers, which everyone knows what they refer to. So when someone yells out a number, everyone laughs. So the other prisoner then says to the newcomer, "Go ahead. You try one." So the new prisoner yells out "55!" No one laughs. Then he yells out "88!" No one laughs. Then he yells out "96!" No one laughs. "I don't get it," he says. "Why is no one laughing?" The other prisoner answers politely, "Some people know how to tell a joke and some people just don't....."

[Torah613]

I was responding to Zebra and LavDavka, who asked for a source for a specific custom.
It was not to answer your question.

[Esrog]

So what, Torah 613? I started this thread. I'm not allowed to learn?

[Torah613]

Nothing. It just is difficult for me to translate etc.

[mendyt]

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