Chayim Nitzchim

[Yankel Nosson]

In the mugah maamor for Parshas Eikev, the Rebbe explains that the mann is bread from shomayim and refers to pnimiyus HaTorah.

In the bilti mugah maamor of parshas Ekev 5744 the Rebbe explains that the mann is tal techiya, from which techiyas hameisim will come, and then makes the following amazing statement:
So now bazman hazeh the effect of the mann is to be a chibur of the neshoma and guf while the neshoma is already found in the body, and by eating we nullify the possibility of separation of the neshoma from the guf. Indeed l'asid l'avo there will also be an additional inyan that via the tal which is the mann there will be the inyan of techiyas hameisim, namely to bring about lechatchila a connection of the neshoma and guf.

Learn Chassidus >> Live Forever!

:vodka:

[JewishHiphop]

B"H


Very interesting YN. This reminds me of something I read today in Likutei Halachot of R'Natan z'l about tal and how it is related to Hashem Echad (both gematria 39) and the wine of Purim, I.e. uniting the physical and the spiritual in kedusha with joy.

[Yankel Nosson]

B"H

Very interesting YN. This reminds me of something I read today in Likutei Halachot of R'Natan z'l about tal and how it is related to Hashem Echad (both gematria 39) and the wine of Purim, I.e. uniting the physical and the spiritual in kedusha with joy.
Also the 39 lashes of malkos -- uniting the physical and the spiritual in kedusha with joy! :rox:

[JewishHiphop]

Also the 39 lashes of malkos -- uniting the physical and the spiritual in kedusha with joy! :rox:Are you implying that 39 lashes may result from the neglect of the study of chassidut? This sounds like it could be in the realm of religious coersion (btw: just kidding)

[Torah613]

And let us not forget the 39 melochos of Shabbos, and especially YT - which is punishable by 39 lashes.
Which also connects to ארור כנען, and the targum there "ליט", and the טל אורות, as explained in sifrei kabolo.

[NuToTheShechuna]

And let us not forget the 39 melochos of Shabbos, and especially YT - which is punishable by 39 lashes.
Which also connects to ארור כנען, and the targum there "ליט", and the טל אורות, as explained in sifrei kabolo.
Not to mention a remez to חכמי ליטא and (lehavdil) the impure tail of the לטאה (the English word "tail" itself containing אותיות ט"ל, hinting at the origin of language in the מוצאות הפה of loshon kodesh [שפה ברורה, gematria 798 which is 20 (כתר) times 39 (ל"ט) plus 18 (חי) which refers of course to the Chayim Nitzchim of the maamar of this week's parsha, המוסגר לעיל]). :smile:

And a happy 15 Av to all! :vodka::vodka::vodka:

[Torah613]

Hmm...But tail is not הלטאה, rather זנב as in the Gemoro in Psochim you probably are referring to.
Also, the Litvaks will not be happy. OTOH, the Alter Rebbe was a Litvak, בסוד הפיכת חושך לאור.
But the טלאים of בגדים may be relevant. And of course, טלית...
Happy Pur... I mean טו באב!

[Torah613]

And how can I forget...LOTTO!!

[Yankel Nosson]

And how can I forget...LOTTO!!We have a winner!



(Now, maybe the mods will delete the shtuss and let the thread return to it's purpose :tired:)

[Torah613]

Tsk tsk YN, you don't see the connection?
Lotto=אוצר which takes us to Bosi Legani etc.
(Now, maybe the mods will delete the shtuss and let the thread return to it's purpose )(IOW, back to post 1.
Shtuss begets shtuss.
What purpose was that?)

[Yankel Nosson]

Tsk tsk YN, you don't see the connection?
Lotto=אוצר which takes us to Bosi Legani etc.
(IOW, back to post 1.
Shtuss begets shtuss.
What purpose was that?)
Why would you use that term in reference to a maamar of the Rebbe?!

(In any event, Lotto is פיס, which is gematria קן, a clear reference to the קן ציפור to where Moshiach is elevated during his period of concealment as stated in the well-known Zohar (Shemos 7a and on). And just as the lottery is a sudden influx wealth that is לאין ערוך to the אתערותא דלתתא investment in the lottery ticket, so too is the ultimate revelation of Moshiach will be לאין ערוך as it will be a manifestation of רחמים רבים as explained in the 15 Av maamorim on the saying of chazal that לא היו ימים טובים לישראל כחמשה עשר באב וכיום הכיפורים)

:vodka:

[Torah613]

I was obviously not referring to your post (though your additional comment is debateable). That is what I meant "back to post #1", meaning to go back to the first post and start again.
Why you would think I meant otherwise - is beyond me.
Though if you are going back to that post, can you perhaps explain it to me so that a simple guy like me can understand?
1) How is there an effect of mann today, if there is no mann AFAIK? Or is man a moshol? For what?
2) What does it mean that by eating it (what?) we nullify the "possibility" of seperation. What does that mean? Where do we see that? Etc.
My point is, if you are going to post things like that, you have to explain what is meant etc., otherwise we descend in the nonsense that follows...

[Bittul]

Actually, as learning Chasidus beshofi was supposed to replace branfen beshofi, perhaps Learning Chasidus>>Drunk as a skunk!

:twolchai::twolchai:
:vodka: :vodka: :vodka: :vodka: :vodka: :vodka:

[tzfas]

well eating and drinking bshufi goes hand in hand with this thread as esav when he was fressing said hal'iteini, which has the key letters of tal.

and bichlal it is known that when one does not have a mikva to go to in the morning, one should go in a group of yiden and say 'mikve yisroel Hashem. perhaps this also applies be eating in an oifen of hal'iteini which is an achila b'oifen shel bshufi, instead of washing before bread one should be 'lot (oisiyos tal) yodov bmapa' inorder to receive all the hamshochos of the tal oros.

leho'ir, that the achila ushesiya by kever Rashbi, which is advertised as having segulos meyuchodim is called chai rotel, whic incidentaly also includes the oisiyos tal.

once we're at, i want to mention that i found in sifrei gimatriyo'ois that shliach tzibur is roshei teivos shatz=390, which is 10x39. dhainu that all the inyonim of the eser sefiros of tal have to come together to creat a tzibur.

which explains why ten women are also considered a tzibur, because they also have the inyon of tal. because the shoresh of tal lemata is in the inyon of the 39 (tal) melochos lo saase of shabbos, which women are included in (shomor).

[Gevurah]

do you buy a lottery ticket of the prize is a $$ value gematria of a din number?

[Majorthinker]

I personally don't buy lottery tickets....is there an inyan to?

But...back to the point of the thread....:eek:
B'emet what is the mann in today's terms? (Can you find the maamar on otzar770?)

[Yankel Nosson]

I personally don't buy lottery tickets....is there an inyan to?

But...back to the point of the thread....:eek:
B'emet what is the mann in today's terms? (Can you find the maamar on otzar770?)
Mann is pnimiyus haTorah.

והענין הוא, דמן רומז לאגדה [כמ"ש והוא כזרע גד לבן ואיתא במכילתא כאגדה שמושכת לבו של אדם], שהוא פנימיות התורה (Online here (http://chabadlibrary.org/books/admur/mlukat/4/22/index.htm))

Eating mann today is learning and spreading chassidus in a way of understanding:
בתורת החסידות שמגלה פנימיות התורה באופן ד"ית פרנסון מיני'", היינו, שנמשך בהבנה והשגה
here (http://chabadlibrary.org/books/admur/tm/29/32/235.htm?search=%d7%a4%d7%a8%d7%a0%d7%a1%d7%95%d7%9 f) and here (http://chabadlibrary.org/books/admur/mlukat/4/29/233.htm?search=%d7%a4%d7%a8%d7%a0%d7%a1%d7%95%d7%9 f))

As for the implications of this b'poal: nullifying the possibility of separation of neshoma and guf, I was hoping intelligent discussion would follow. A little clever, maybe, but not what I was hoping for. Nonetheless, עס איז ניטא קיין פארפאלען :)

I would suggest that it is not referring to the guf chumri, which is the levush we see with עיני בשר (as touched upon in another thread not long ago).

The distinction between guf chumri and guf gashmi is hinted at in these igros, though I am not saying there are rayos for my suggestion.

התורה והמצוה אף שניתנו לנשמה בגוף דוקא (שבת פח, ב), עיקר שייכותם ופעולתם... בנפש, שהיא רוחניית ולא בגוף החומרי.
אגרות קודש > כרך ב > רעו

שמחה אמיתית, הפורצת גדרי הגוף החומרי ומזכך את גוף הגשמי
אגרות קודש > כרך יא > ג'תשמט

[Torah613]

If you want a serious discussion, you could start with direct quotes in the original Hebrew, instead of translations and/or adaptions.

[Yankel Nosson]

If you want a serious discussion, you could start with direct quotes in the original Hebrew, instead of translations and/or adaptions.
1159
Maamor Ekev 5744 (http://otzar770.com/library/main_book.asp?nBookId=81&cPartLetter=B&nPageNumber=2385)

[Torah613]

Thanks. What a difference a translation makes. Doesn't mean that mann keeps people from dying at all (like I foolishly thought) - rather that it keeps body and soul together and keeps the person alive. Leosid, being בחי' טל של תחיה, it will do even more - תחיית המתים. [And בזמן הזה in that quote means in contrast to לע"ל]. Uposhut.
No living forever (yet) :( ...

[Yankel Nosson]

Thanks. What a difference a translation makes. Doesn't mean that mann keeps people from dying at all (like I foolishly thought) - rather that it keeps body and soul together and keeps the person alive. Leosid, being בחי' טל של תחיה, it will do even more - תחיית המתים. [And בזמן הזה in that quote means in contrast to לע"ל]. Uposhut.
No living forever (yet) :( ...
If that was correct, then we nobody in Lakewood would be alive (chas v'shalom), being that they lack the achila of Chassidus to keep their body and soul together.

The key words are "mevatelin es ha'efsharus": i.e., making it impossible for body and soul to separate, which is the opposite of life. If the opposite of life is "bilti efshari" then life continues l'netzach. The emphasis (from the other maamer) is that mann is lechem min hashomayim, as opposed to nigleh which is lechem min ha'aretz. Lechem min ha'aretz (nigleh) also keeps the body and soul together, but not in a way where it is mevatel the efsharus of pirud!

The reference to techiyas hameisim is that it is a higher level--it doesn't "merely" make the separation of body and soul impossible, but rather it can bring the two together again l'chatchila.

[Torah613]

Exactly - the problem is that you are combining 2 maamorim, to make a cholent. In this maamor he says no such thing.
מבטלים את האפשריות merely means until his time is up, and keeps him alive. Without eating, the neshomo flies away. Eating avoids that posibility.
Why is your question about Lakewood connected to what I wrote?
How does nigleh (or anything) keep body and soul together? What does that mean? You are apparantly speaking at a level of remez and drush - something that I have no chush in...

[Gevurah]

Exactly - the problem is that you are combining 2 maamorim, to make a cholent.

Taka and where does the Rebbe say not to do this explicity;) I shall respond in YN's defense given that I shall empathisize with him for ol' perek 32's sake?

[Yankel Nosson]

I shall respond in YN's defense
:lchaim::twolchai::vodka::hat:
והימים האלה נזכרים ונעשים

[Majorthinker]

Wait a second....T613, I don't think that the people in Lakewood are really alive in every sense (note: most of us also need to work on this)..... If someone doesn't learn chassidus, it makes it nearly impossible to be fully alive and present, when you do mitzvos. One who learns chassidus does indeed create a chibur between the neshama and the guf- meaning that the two do not contradict each other, but help each other. This is in contrast to the misnag'dishe way of looking at things, that one cancels out the other.

Am I making sense? (If I'm not, then I guess I still haven't learned to explain myself clearly....at least not when it comes to chassidus.)

[Gevurah]

If all of Lakewood is not learning Chabad chassidus , likutei sichos and mamarim of OUR Rebbe then the Shaliach there has failed miserably and would have been better off teaching someone who wanted to learn from him.

Now to take the other side, since this Shaliach did not teach YN as well how to koch in Chabad Chassidus instead of him making Shabbas leftovers out of it...
YN comes up with if A and if B over there then YN can say 1+ 1 = 3 when he feels like it and claim its only 2.

[Torah613]

Wait a second....T613, I don't think that the people in Lakewood are really alive in every sense (note: most of us also need to work on this)..... If someone doesn't learn chassidus, it makes it nearly impossible to be fully alive and present, when you do mitzvos. One who learns chassidus does indeed create a chibur between the neshama and the guf- meaning that the two do not contradict each other, but help each other. This is in contrast to the misnag'dishe way of looking at things, that one cancels out the other.

Am I making sense? (If I'm not, then I guess I still haven't learned to explain myself clearly....at least not when it comes to chassidus.)
If you are making sense or not, I don't know, but the misnaged in me would like sources for these definitions.
Anyway, no one is (fully) alive, everyone is alive... whatever.

[NuToTheShechuna]

Exactly - the problem is that you are combining 2 maamorim, to make a cholent. In this maamor he says no such thing.
מבטלים את האפשריות merely means until his time is up, and keeps him alive. Without eating, the neshomo flies away. Eating avoids that posibility.
Why is your question about Lakewood connected to what I wrote?
How does nigleh (or anything) keep body and soul together? What does that mean? You are apparantly speaking at a level of remez and drush - something that I have no chush in...
Describing the manna as pnimius hatorah is basic Chassidus I think:

the Torah is also known as "bread." [see Shabbos 120a; Chagigah 14a; Tikkunei Zohar 1b, 140b; Bereishis Rabbah 43:6] Our Sages thus explain [see VeHayah Ki Savo 5666; Amar Rabi Akiva Ashreichem Yisrael 5667. See also Likkutei Sichos, ibid., Behaalos'cha (ch. 4) and Eilkev (ch. 5)] that heavenly and earthly bread also denote the concealed and revealed parts of Torah.


Based on Likkutei Sichos, Vol. IX, pp. 14-20

[Majorthinker]

If you are making sense or not, I don't know, but the misnaged in me would like sources for these definitions.
Anyway, no one is (fully) alive, everyone is alive... whatever.
As if I can recall which sicha this was.....do you know how many I learned? And no, it doesn't categorize by sicha in my head.

The part about Lakewood- no source, I said 'I think'. If Chassidus explains the mitzva and adds a deeper meaning to it, as well as helping you to have Ahavas Hashem, how can you do a mitzva from ahava without Chassidus? Most misnagdim do mitzvos rak m'yirah. And I know this from experience- both personally and from observing others.

The part about creating a chibur between the neshama and the guf- seriously, what Chassidus is about is not nullifying the guf, but using it to serve Hashem. See Hayom Yom where it says ki tireh chamor sonecha...

And the 'misnaged in you' is called a chassid's y"h. (So does that mean you're a chassid [see other thread]?)

[Torah613]

I don't understand a word.

[Majorthinker]

Arrrggg......

Wait a second....T613, I don't think that the people in Lakewood e are really alive in every sense (note: most of us also need to work on this).....I said 'I think', ie, no quote available except MT.

If someone doesn't learn chassidus, it makes it nearly impossible to be fully alive and present, when you do mitzvos. How can you be fully there and appreciate the mitzva, and do it to the fullest extent, when you don't understand what you're doing? And how can you do a mitzva from ahava if you have a mindset that is 'yirah only', ie, misnagdishe....it's all about gehinnom, not about ahavas Hashem. Chassidus teaches this. Therefore, to do a mitzva properly, with kavana, you need chassidus. However, in today's day, we are not baki in this.

On who learns chassidus does indeed create a chibur between the neshama and the guf- meaning that the two do not contradict each other, but help each other. Chassidus says that you need to help the guf, not destroy it. Your guf is not an enemy, but a tool to serve Hashem.

This is in contrast to the misnag'dishe way of looking at things, that one cancels out the other.
Which is why a lot of misnagdim fast, and undergo various forms of torture. Yes, iskafiya is an avoda, but it is only one step. The other is ishapcha. See Hayom Yom.

[Torah613]

I suspect that your "misnagid" that you describe, is a figment of your imagination. IOW, mythical, AKA a concept.
Who is not "baki" about what?
I find the statement that without Chassidus, one cannot do a mitzvah properly - breathtaking in it's novelty. And all with MT as the source. Nu nu...
[Out of curiousity: How do you define "misnagid"? Where does this fellow who tortures himself, and thinks only about gehinom - exist today? In ספר הזכרונות? In Brisk maybe?].
On second thought, better not to respond.

[Majorthinker]

The misnaged that I describe, ARE real people I have seen. Contrary to popular opinion, I am not a geborner chassid. I used to be a BIG misnaged. I have both seen and lived what I say.

I also said that I don't think the people in Lakewood are alive in every sense, and then added that we are not, either. If you stop to think, I'm not so sure that you'll disagree with me. And the other thread: let me go find the paper where I wrote my sources, and then I will post them, IY"H. B'seder?

[Torah613]

My friend, I have also been around the block, and read the stuff that comes out. That is NOT the "shprach". You must have lived in rare weird pockets.
Whatever.
[Agav: The word "Lakewood" these days (vs. 30-40 years ago) is meaningless].

[Majorthinker]

I don't think so.

[Yankel Nosson]

The distinction between guf chumri and guf gashmi is hinted at in these igros.

התורה והמצוה אף שניתנו לנשמה בגוף דוקא (שבת פח, ב), עיקר שייכותם ופעולתם... בנפש, שהיא רוחניית ולא בגוף החומרי.
אגרות קודש > כרך ב > רעו

שמחה אמיתית, הפורצת גדרי הגוף החומרי ומזכך את גוף הגשמי
אגרות קודש > כרך יא > ג'תשמט
See also מאמרי אדה"ז תקס"ו ח"א קעח :

לבושיו של אלי' היו מורין שלא הי' גופו חומרי כשאר בני האדם...עוצם הזדככות גופו עד שפרח וטס באויר כו'. ועיקר הענין למעלה ומדרגה כזו שיהי' גוף חומרי פורח וטס באויר כו'

[beinoniwannabe]

I always thought that a gashmi and chumri were synonymous.

[Gevurah]

I also said that I don't think the people in Lakewood are alive in every sense

more than goyim?

[Majorthinker]

Definitely more than goyim, but respectively/proportionately, we're not that much different. I'm not sure if you get my drift....we are innately on a higher level, but none of us are using that to the fullest extent possible.