what's wrong with facebook?

[shlucha14]

I came to a frum school almost 2 years ago after spending my entire schooling with non-frum ppl, where I am on shlichus. One of my old (non-frum) friends suggested that I get facebook as a way to keep in touch with her and my other friends.

Then I got into the frum world and discovered that, in the words of one of my really close friends, (who's pretty chasidish, and considered a lot of fun by the entire class) that "we don't do facebook".
That really confused me, so I looked around and saw that girls who had it tended to be more wild and superficial- plus all some of them talked about was what other ppl had written on their wall. I deactivated my account, but I would like to know: what exactly is so bad about Facebook?

[Returning]

BS"D

Like the Internet in general, Facebook can be used for good or for bad. There are many good people as well as learning and Tehillim groups on Facebook, and especially if you have friends all over the world it is a good way to keep in touch, but there is also quite a bit of pritzus and just plain wasting time.

If you can control yourself then it is a good thing. BUT:

1) Keep your profile protected so that only your friends can see it - don't leave it open within your network.

2) Be careful when you put up photos that people can comment on because then all of the friends of whoever comments on them can see every picture in whatever album your commented pic comes from.

3) Be careful which groups you join; don't get too much into the culture of Facebook because so much of it is just a plain waste of time. And add only people you know in real life to your friends list.

[Majorthinker]

In simple words, Facebook is a waste of time.
If you follow what Returning said, though, then you should be okay. But it's still better to keep your name off the internet as much as possible.

When Facebook came out, and I professed to be anti-Facebook, my mother told me that in 20 years, potential employers will do Facebook searches as part of their background checks, and possibly eliminate people based on Facebook. You don't want to have that as part of your record.*

*Note- I have friends who weren't hired because someone did a background check on Facebook, and found them to be wanting in something.

[Returning]

When Facebook came out, and I professed to be anti-Facebook, my mother told me that in 20 years, potential employers will do Facebook searches as part of their background checks, and possibly eliminate people based on Facebook. You don't want to have that as part of your record.*

*Note- I have friends who weren't hired because someone did a background check on Facebook, and found them to be wanting in something.

BS"D

You can use a phony name or a nickname so long as it has a first and last name. I have two phony accounts as backups because I had organized a tehillim chain and needed to send more messages than Facebook allows. One is Panthera Tigris Altaica and the other is Hareytze Beilumshem. Since I no longer use the backups anyway I'm tempted to change one of them to something downright obscene in Turkish just to get one over on them :biggrin:.

[FlyingAxe]

This is a Chabad forum, right? Alter Rebbe talks about Facebook in Tanya.

[Majorthinker]

And refers to it as such? Interesting....

[Returning]

This is a Chabad forum, right? Alter Rebbe talks about Facebook in Tanya.

BS"D

Yes, in the same perek in which Benedictine is discussed. I drank too much of it at breakfast to be able to find the reference.

[Majorthinker]

Hm. And which perek might that be?

[Returning]

Hm. And which perek might that be?

BS"D

Shin resh chaf yud vov (536), which is usually referred to as shin yud caf vov resh.

[Majorthinker]

LOL.
Who's shikkur? (Besides Returning....)

[Returning]

LOL.
Who's shikkur? (Besides Returning....)

BS"D

Anyone who drinks Benedictine for breakfast and thinks Facebook is mentioned in Tanya is either shikkur, on something or zeyr shtark meshugge!

[shlucha14]

In simple words, Facebook is a waste of time.
If you follow what Returning said, though, then you should be okay. But it's still better to keep your name off the internet as much as possible.

Right, that's what I tell ppl when they ask why I don't have it anymore. But then why's there such a stigma with having it in chassidishe circles?

When Facebook came out, and I professed to be anti-Facebook, my mother told me that in 20 years, potential employers will do Facebook searches as part of their background checks, and possibly eliminate people based on Facebook. You don't want to have that as part of your record.*

*Note- I have friends who weren't hired because someone did a background check on Facebook, and found them to be wanting in something.

Yeah, one of my friends put up a photo with a teacher in it, ppl commented really disgustingly and the school found out. People got into SO much trouble, that's why I'm not re-activating it.

[Returning]

Yeah, one of my friends put up a photo with a teacher in it, ppl commented really disgustingly and the school found out. People got into SO much trouble, that's why I'm not re-activating it.

BS"D

I busted someone who used the picture, name and birth date of a respected teacher in a Chabad community abroad to set up a phoney Facebook account. But in general, the Chabad activity on Facebook is positive.

[mushka18]

What exactly did the alter rebbe right in Tanya about facebook?

Another problem with facebook is, theres really wierd people on it who try to be your friend.
You have to make a private account.

[shlucha14]

right...mine is as private as it gets, i only use it for looking at pictures of my friends.

[seekinganswers]

I came to a frum school almost 2 years ago after spending my entire schooling with non-frum ppl, where I am on shlichus. One of my old (non-frum) friends suggested that I get facebook as a way to keep in touch with her and my other friends.

Then I got into the frum world and discovered that, in the words of one of my really close friends, (who's pretty chasidish, and considered a lot of fun by the entire class) that "we don't do facebook".
That really confused me, so I looked around and saw that girls who had it tended to be more wild and superficial- plus all some of them talked about was what other ppl had written on their wall. I deactivated my account, but I would like to know: what exactly is so bad about Facebook?

Facebook isn't really the best thing. It can get super addicting and it is also used by many people just as places to post pictures that are not the best for other people to see. It's not really a modest thing most of the time.

So, I guess if you are interested in another view of Facebook, it's just not really worth the time. You can call friends and text them... if you have pictures you want them to see that are decent, you can show them in real life. There is no really good reason to use it unless you have friends far away and Facebook is the only good way you can keep in contact with them.

I was on Facebook for awhile but then I realized that it became almost like a competition of who could post the most crazy pics... that's when I realized it is not the best because it gets immodest really quick.

Also, nowadays prospective employees will look at Facebook to see the character of the person they are thinking about hiring. It is a way that people can see how you view life.

Peace and God bless

[GroisaTzadik]

I just use facebook to post an event and I quickly zoom off. (And come to chabadtalk - LOL!)

[FlyingAxe]

What exactly did the alter rebbe right in Tanya about facebook?
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/7885/jewish/Chapter-6.htm
Starting with וכן כל הדבורים.

[shlucha14]

100 % right, but it's a very high level...

[FlyingAxe]

"... karov ... meoid".

As long as you're saying that it's a high level, it remains high. When you start saying, "I don't care at what level it is relative to where I am. Hashem wants this to happen, and therefore, this needs to happen", you will realize that Hashem has already granted you powers to get there.

[joel]

everything has a good side and a bad side
its up to u how you use it
and if you are able to control yourself
and to be wise not estimating yourself
to be consious of your weakness so u may know to avoid any situation
that may cause you to sin
if you cant controll a power the power take controll of you
you are a slave of the power that controlls you
and it becomes your god

[Merlyn]

i Love facebook

[Majorthinker]

Because you don't have a life, lol.

Facebook is loved by those with nothing better to do than waste time talking to friends via internet, instead of on the phone or in person.
Personally, I am anti-facebook on grounds of bittul zman, wasting a life, and inappropriateness.

[Majorthinker]

tachatbook?! benyehuda, you're a crackup. One of my more chareidi friends calls it fakebook. But tahatbook?! LOL! :D

[chossidnistar]

Facebook could be utilized in a very positive way , but is not for everyone

Someone who is a BT, with many non frum Jewish friends from different times and places,,can make a killing outreach with Facebook

[Majorthinker]

"a killing outreach"
You can't word it a bit more nicely?

[chossidnistar]

Sorry, again with my Spanish

tell me , how is better?

[Majorthinker]

Okay, sorry. Understandable and excusable.
"a lot of outreach"
"terrific [amount of] outreach"
"good outreach"

"killing outreach" just sounds...prust.

[shlucha14]

One of my anti-FB friends calls it "sefer shel panim". ;-)!

[yid613]

there is nothing phsyically wrong with facebok besides the fact that it is pure shtues. and klipa, but it is capable of being made good. it can be used for good or bad depends how u use it. but teenagers should not be on facebook. although you can make it safe, you see pictures, or apps that your eyes shlouldnt see. and besides, the obvious reason is it is a complete waist of time! do something a bit more constructive like extra learning or mivztiom.

When mashiach comes we will each be asked what did we do to bring mashiach, do you want to say you spent your free time on facebook? i dont think that would make the Rebbe proud, but then again, it is only my opinion.

This can be very useful to stay in contact with long distance friends or so on, but you can also pick up the phone or call. what did this society do before their were computers??!? or to be more careful, you can just email them rather then facebook.


Mashiach now!!!!!!!

[animzemirot]

"This can be very useful to stay in contact with long distance friends or so on, but you can also pick up the phone or call. what did this society do before their were computers??!? or to be more careful, you can just email them rather then facebook. "

This is true, rather then spending time on facebook, you cna so much more useful things! we are in the thershold of Mashiach! all we need is achdus! not facebook! i come from a chassidish school where this is just a "don" yet the "fried" kids have it.

it all depends on your level of chassidish.

[Majorthinker]

One of my anti-FB friends calls it "sefer shel panim". ;-)!
Sefer shel achorayim.
Tachat-book. LOL.

Those useful things can better be done offline. Sorry.

[Agent40]

B'h
I dunno I went on for a month after family told me too since that was the only form of contact for them.
It scared the living day lights out of me I left after a month deleting my account and have not been on since then that was two years ago. I had this weirdo trying to befriend me and though I chose to ignore that's not the point.

Also if you are at all like me and please don't tell me I am the only lone alien on this planet. I click on other people who come up on the sides. So yes you can get hooked line and sinker and it definitely doesn't help ones yiras shomayim.
So PLEASE!!!!

[mosheh5769]

FB is a complete waste of time instead of learning and doing constructive things. They are chatting, making fun of other people and it is a tool that spread L'H in a very quick and subtile manner. They may have good points in FB but because of the many bad points and the harm it causes, we should distanciate ourselves from it. Tommorrow, it will become kosher for a lubavitcher to watch movies and have a tv set.

[mosheh5769]

And with a FB profile, there is no longer a mechitzah between boys and girls. Once, I heard (I was their guest) a follow chosid woman saying to one of her daughters aged 15 who had just created her own fb profile "I forbid you to add boys in your fb's contacts". But how parents can know that their children don't use fb foolishly? It should be banned. But people would continue to use it, so.

[noahidelaws]

Beloshon Admur HaZokein: "Hakol lefi mah shehu odom, ulefi hazman vehamokom."

[mosheh5769]

Someone who is a BT, with many non frum Jewish friends from different times and places,,can make a killing outreach with Facebook

Every year, during chol hamoed we organize a gathering in the sukkah of our Beis Chabad. This year, we had a huge success simply because the shlucha used FB to invite the Jews of our surrounding area. We also had some people who came from afar.

So, it was a really positive use of FB.

However, this does not erase all the flaws and klipa of FB and the fact that FB is really a waste of time. In that sense, I agree with you when you said that:

Facebook could be utilized in a very positive way , but is not for everyone.

With the exception of Shlichus, I do not see the point of this thing and why some Chassidim are wasting their time on it.

[mosheh5769]

One article in favor of Facebook:

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/1254238/jewish/Can-G-d-and-Facebook-Be-Friends.htm

Another article that is more balanced:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/749716/jewish/I-Facebook-Therefore-I-Am.htm

And from the below article, the conclusion is pretty well written (in my opinion):

So hang up your spacesuit. Why float through cyberspace when you can fly through Reality? Shop designer, but don't get fooled by the knockoff version of you in the display window. Never sacrifice eternal worth for provisional validation. And as you type, upload and post, bear in mind: Comments are just comments. Pictures don't have mouths. And you don't get to keep the virtual gifts you get for your birthday. Facebook is never gonna be as good as real life. And really, any place where you can throw a sheep at someone ought not be taken too seriously.

Log out, click back to reality.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1187311/jewish/Eat-Pray-Facebook.htm

So there you have three different approaches.

[mosheh5769]

An interresting article from COL (http://www.col.org.il/%D7%97%D7%93%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%97%D7%91%D7%93_ %D7%94%D7%9E%D7%9C%D7%97%D7%9E%D7%94_%D7%94%D7%97% D7%93%D7%A9%D7%94_%D7%A9%D7%9C_%D7%94%D7%A2%D7%A1% D7%A7%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%97%D7%A8%D7%9D_%D7%A2% D7%9C_%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A1%D7%91%D7%95%D7%A7_5 9786.html) (in LHK) on the subject.

[mosheh5769]

The Only thing wrong with fb is that it can become begin addicting.
That is one (even if almost any thing nowadays can lead to an addiction)

Plus people can use it and have bad pictures of themselves
That is two.

There are many more problems than these two (as issues of promiscuity between boys and girls, wasting his time, etc.)

[mosheh5769]

On one hand we are told by many Rabbonim to keep away as far as possible from Facebook, and on the other hand, we are bombarded with messages and competitions in which we must have a Facebook account to vote for and make win Lubavitch moisdos.

[Torah613]

Ignore them. It is for those that have Facebook anyway (though I admit, it does not smell right...).

[chossidnistar]

you can be practical

you can open an account with a nick name,just to vote
you dont need pics, you dont need friends, etc

[mosheh5769]

Ignore them. It is for those that have Facebook anyway (though I admit, it does not smell right...).

Hence the question: are there still Lubavitcher listening to the Rabbonim or did it become "live and let live", do whatever you want?

On the other hand, I have read the handbooks of some Lubavitch schools, and I don't understand Lubavitch schools whose policy is to forbid the Internet at home, to limit to 15 minutes the time spend behind the screen (I know plenty of people, even chassidim, with a FB account, and they spend almost an hour on FB), and who even stipulate that FB is forbidden for their students, but nonetheless take part in such competitions. I understand they need the money, but there is a contradiction between their school policy and the FB competitions.

And eventhough, it's true, that it's only for those having an account, where are the parents? I agree with CN that it's possible to create a temporary account, but the fact is that most people voting do have a permanent FB account, and many among them are young people. We all know what's going on FB, so I will not mention it, but where are the parents? How is it possible that chassidish parents don't bother their children having a FB account? (Or maybe, they lack the authority, and it's another big problem or our generation.)

[mosheh5769]

you can be practical

you can open an account with a nick name,just to vote
you dont need pics, you dont need friends, etc

Right, but there are some problems with that:

1) even considering opening an account is ridicule (at least, IMHO, of course);
2) opening a temporary account just for the sake of voting is the first step into temptation, because you can be led to keep it or open another one which will become your permanent account (you know, with all the peer pressure who are almost harassing you to convince you of the many virtues of FB and how it's secure, etc.Not everyone is mentally strong to resist it);
3) I argue (I don't have figures) that most people voting, and among them Lubavitcher, don't have temporary but permanent accounts;
4) Frankly, what's the point of having a FB account without pictures, without friends, without L'H, without commenting (positively or negatively) pictures of other people, and all the other "spicy" things I see and hear peiple doing all atound? FB without all these stuffs is like a Shabbos without a cholent...it's hardly thinkable and this is what contribute to the "oneg" (at least for me, cholent is an integral part of my oneg shabbes :D).

[chossidnistar]

On one hand we are told by many Rabbonim to keep away as far as possible from Facebook, and on the other hand, we are bombarded with messages and competitions in which we must have a Facebook account to vote for and make win Lubavitch moisdos.
U can vote to help and not have a real FB account
maybe this is not an option for you but it works for some

[mosheh5769]

U can vote to help and not have a real FB account
maybe this is not an option for you but it works for some

I am still convinced that for such competitions, they can introduce other means so everybody can feel concerned (yes, I know, Lubavitch did not establish the rules of the game).

[chossidnistar]

I am still convinced that for such competitions, they can introduce other means so everybody can feel concerned (yes, I know, Lubavitch did not establish the rules of the game).
Thank for the participation of practical ppl, BH,Chabad Argentina won yesterday $500.000 for just a difference of 38 votes In more than 25.000
These ppl who signed in FB tiLTED the scale in thESE 38 votes

[mosheh5769]

thank for the participation of practical ppl, bh,chabad argentina won yesterday $500.000 for just a difference of 38 votes in more than 25.000
these ppl who signed in fb tilted the scale in these 38 votes

ברוך ה׳

[Torah613]

Thank for the participation of practical ppl, BH,Chabad Argentina won yesterday $500.000 for just a difference of 38 votes In more than 25.000
These ppl who signed in FB tiLTED the scale in thESE 38 votesYes. And we have no idea what negative result this great Mitzva of having facebook will eventually result in for our younger people especially, who felt compelled to participate in this great Mitzvah and decided not to be "chanuyuked" but to be "practical". Does that make it worth it? For the people getting the money - probably. For the others - not at all (IMVHO, of course).
Let me be more blunt: In my opinion, it reeks of hypocricy. If a mossad has an official "no internet" policy (I have no idea if Chabad of Argentina has one - but some of the mosdos in the competition definitely do) - it should not be living by the internet and making its clientle do so. That is called having your cake and eating it, or playing both sides...
The ends do not always justify the means - even if the end is a nice sum of money. VAKML.

[chossidnistar]

ppl find the voting requests Online
once you are online, just to fill a FB account, that you are not going to use,to vote ,is like clicking in an ad in a jewish site and less dangerous that having an email address

[Torah613]

On the one hand, we have Rabbonim, mechanchim etc etc who tell us the dangers of Facebook. Then we have chossidnistar on the other side (plus a few mosdos who want to make money) who tell us that it is no big deal.
I hear.
To me - it doesn't sit right for some reason. I guess I am strange...

[mosheh5769]

Being in contact with some youth affected by this plague called FB (and among them, sadly, some young Lubavitcher from very frum families who are losing control on their children), I know first hand that this is an issue that should not be taken lightly. And don't think that the adults are managing it better than our youths. Many adults from very frum families have been poisoned by that plague. Of course, there are exceptions, and many people who know how to use it properly and efficiently, but to deny that it has catastrophic effects is worse. There are very good reasons why our Rabbonim spoke and are speaking against that plague. Only those who have a FB account cannot see that (it's normal, because when you enjoy it, you hardly see the bad in it). But as I previously said, there are two main issues to consider here, regardless of whether one is pro or anti-Facebook: the needless exposure to that plague (there are many people who do not need facebook to make a donation to a Mossad, eventhough we concede that you can win more many with such competitions), and the FACT that it is known that some Chabad schools in the competition forbid the Internet at home, and even explicitely state that Facebook is innapropriate and that parents should forbid their children to have an access to it. This is where lies the issue we should have with the competition, wheither you are pro or anti's.

[chossidnistar]

On the one hand, we have Rabbonim, mechanchim etc etc who tell us the dangers of Facebook. Then we have chossidnistar on the other side (plus a few mosdos who want to make money) who tell us that it is no big deal.
I hear.
To me - it doesn't sit right for some reason. I guess I am strange...
I am not saying that FB is not dangerous, IT IS!
this is why I am saying just to open an account with nickmane not pics, not friends, just to vote when a mitzvah comes up
Iow .is not having a FB account at all, is just a way to vote
a little MN:smile:

[Torah613]

I disagree, and therefore I do not have a FB account.
And for mosdos that claim to have a anti-web policy to urge people to use FB accounts etc. is hypocrisy (as is often their whole policy to begin with, but that is a different discussion).
I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[cbd101]

Chossidnstar, i will have to completely disagree with you. As a bochur who last year opened up a FB account under a completely random name, and did nothing but vote for that 'kohls counts' thing, i was amazed / horrified, that just one day after opening that account, which again, was under a completely random name, not even jewish sounding, I received a friend request from a lubavitcher girl, who when I turned down the request and asked what on earth she was doing, friending a random person, said she saw i voted for the jewish schools and thought she would friend me.

With some ppl that could have gone a whole other way. Opening an account under another name can be the 'smartest thing'. You can do what you want without worrying about it coming back to you. Facebook is something which should just be completely avoided.

[chossidnistar]

yes, it's VERY dangerous FB
when I say "no friends" means to reject any request
when someone opens an account it's better to do it with a new email and never used it again
Also,if you have an email address, you should not respond all the emails that you get

[mosheh5769]

yes, it's VERY dangerous FB
when I say "no friends" means to reject any request
when someone opens an account it's better to do it with a new email and never used it again
Also,if you have an email address, you should not respond all the emails that you get

More easy to say than to do. Things rarely happen so easily as you seem to think.

[chossidnistar]

it's not for everyone

[mosheh5769]

it's not for everyone

It's not for a chosid :smile:.

Other people can do as it pleases them, but for a chosid to have FB...

[chossidnistar]

there are many shluchim ,chassidim, that have FB and they do a great outreach

[mosheh5769]

there are many shluchim ,chassidim, that have FB and they do a great outreach

B'H if this is the case, and there are also, as we know, some other things that happen in Basei Chabad which are not acceptable. Should we emulate that also?

I didn't know you were so liberal? :smile:

[mosheh5769]

there are many shluchim ,chassidim, that have FB and they do a great outreach

For shluchim who are 24/7 involved with their community, I don't see the issue, as most of their congregants may be secular or not religious yet. Similarly, I'll have no issue with shluchim using the TV, the Internet or other medias to touch non religious yet or non-affiliated Jews. After all, if the shluchim don't speak their language, how can they expect to be heard? I've already told how one of the local Beis Chabad had a huge success for sukkos when the shlucha decided to invite people through FB.

But not everybody enters in that category, especially not our youths, and what's the use for a bochur to have a FB account? There are also many adults already married who don't enter in that category. Indeed, there are very few those who can justify having a FB account. And there are also very few those who can admit that they didn't do unkosher things or were not exposed to unkosher and innapropriate things with FB.

[chossidnistar]

B'H if this is the case, and there are also, as we know, some other things that happen in Basei Chabad which are not acceptable. Should we emulate that also?

I didn't know you were so liberal? :smile:
there are different levels
some ppl are burned if they dont daven in an specific shul
for many ppl is not acceptable to be in the internet at all
ONly ppl who are already ONLINe get these requests to vote,meaning these are ppl who are in a different lower level of chassiddishkeit
some ppl dont do mivtzoym in Manhattan,or ressorts ,bc they are exposed to different things
I really don't see any difference in having a FB account just to vote with a nickname on no friends, than to be online and having email address
one thing, for sure,it's not for you:smile:

[mosheh5769]

there are different levels
some ppl are burned if they dont daven in an specific shul
for many ppl is not acceptable to be in the internet at all
ONly ppl who are already ONLINe get these requests to vote,meaning these are ppl who are in a different lower level of chassiddishkeit
some ppl dont do mivtzoym in Manhattan,or ressorts ,bc they are exposed to different things
I really don't see any difference in having a FB account just to vote with a nickname on no friends, than to be online and having email address
one thing, for sure,it's not for you:smile:
With such a defensive approach, sin or potential sin seems to be a non issue.

It's not because many smokers don't have a lung or throat cancer than, all of a sudden, there is no issue in smoking or we should concider it appropriate (or close our eyes on the issue) because some other have cancer without smoking...