Cutting own hair to use as a Shaitel

[rockyrox]

Could I chop off my hair now before I am married and wear it as a sheitel afterwards, a few years down the track?

[funnsmart1]

As far as cutting your own hair, each person needs to consult with their personal rabbi, in general according to the Kallah classes teachers, there is nothing wrong with it, it is totally mutar. From the practical aspect however, you need to grow your hair 3 times to get one wig,,,, so start growing,,
As far as the gemach is concerned, perhaps you could post the name on the net, as to make life easier for all of us.

[ChachChach]

you really are allowed to do that? i thought the whole problem with the hair, is that the HAIR cant be seen...cutting it off and weaving it into a shaitel doesnt change the "hair"ness...

are you sure you're allowed to do that?

[CybeRabbi]

In Darkei Moshe (From the RM"A author of the "tablecloth" (mapeh) on Shilchon Aruch) Orach Chaim 303 he writes: "A married woman is allowed to expose her wig and there is no difference if its made from her own hair or her friends hair".

And so writes all other poskim who agree that a sheitel is permitted.

[ChachChach]

then there's only a problem when hair is attached to the head? why's that?

[Jude]

ChachChach: think about it
Isn't hair that grows out of your very own head a whole lot different than some dead hair someone sewed into a net, whether it's your hair or someone else's?

[ChachChach]

not really

when you put it as "dead hair that someone sewed into a net", you're deliberately using words with a negative connontation

what if i say
"what's the difference between oily, strangly, gimy hair, that's growing out of a lice infected scalp, covered in oozing sores
and dead hair that someone sewed into a net"

sounds the same now, no?

still dont see a difference

[CybeRabbi]

Chachchach!

That is not a question, since we can ask the same on the whole tznious spectrum: what is more attractive the face of young good looking woman or some private part of an old sick woman in an old age home? The answer is obvious, nevertheless, the face of the young woman need not be covered, but that part of that wretched lady needs to be.

But when it comes to hair there is even a deeper point.

The simple Halachik reason that a sheital, even from your own hair (well the question really is not: your own hair versus others hair, but rather: human hair versus artificial hair, since why should the fact that its your hair play any role) is kosher, is as following.

There is a big distinction between the definition of Ervo as regards to the hair of the woman than the definition of Erveh as relates to the rest of womans body (as we know the halachik principle: tefech be'isho erveh.)

Hair by definition is not an Erveh, it's not more attractive than her hands or her face which don't need any cover. Proof for that: a celibate woman who never married, can actually live her whole life with an uncovered head and you can read the Torah from a sefer torah in front of her.

So what makes it an erveh? The fact that Torah obligates a married woman to cover her hair confers on the hair the erveh status, as the Alter Rebbe in his Shilcho Aruch phrases it (Orach Chaim 75:4) "The womans hair that is used to being covered is an Erveh, since it brings to lewd thoughts...but maids who are used that their haeds are uncovered...since we are used to them they don't cause hirhur". The act of covering is what endows the hair with some shocking alluring power it lacks otherwise.

In Short: Hair is not covered because its an Erveh, to the contrary: because its covered therefore it becomes a Erveh!

Conversly, when we deal with rest of the womans body, we are dealing with Erveh per se, a female body by Halachik definition is an Erveh since she causes men hirhur. Therefore, the female body needs to be covered completely to hide her erveh.

So with the rest of the body -- its the Erveh which obligates the cover, not the cover which creates the Erveh.

Now here is the difference, regarding the rest of the body even a drawing of a female's body is considered an Erveh, since it will cause hirhur, but hair, which by itself is not any erveh whatsoever, just the covering of the hair is the cause of the erveh -- so, once the hair is severed from the person, it becomes merely a replica of hair, like the unmarried womans hair which can be exposed forever! It can be the most beautiful hair in the world, so what? is it worse than a girls natural hear?

[rebayzl]

Rabbi, but other parts of the body are also deemed to be Ervah based on the fact that they are covered or uncovered, like the hands below the elbow or feet below the ankle.

[funnsmart1]

The way Morah Groner in Bais Rivkah Seminary explained it to my class many years ago ( maybe not so many, but who is counting?) was something like this, Ervah on the hair is like a battery. If the batttery is in beautiful working condition, and it is strong and the brand name is the absolute best, but it sits in the closet in your toolbox, it is not doing anything,, one needs to put the battery into (for example) a cell phone to make it work. The same is with Ervah of the hair. One needs Chupah and Kiddushin to make it apply to the persons hair.
That said, and the previous Rabbi's response, clarifies that it does not become ervah until a person is married.

Also, as one Hashkafah shiur lady that I went to hear said, " No man in the world is interested in running their hair thru some ladies lifeless shaitel, as opposed to her own head!" That is true of a sheitel made of her gorgeous hair,, or someone elses that she spent a fortune on.

[rebayzl]

But when the man does not KNOW it's a wig, it's different.

[CybeRabbi]

<<<Rabbi, but other parts of the body are also deemed to be Ervah based on the fact that they are covered or uncovered, like the hands below the elbow or feet below the ankle.>>>

I have to look into the status of the covering on this areas, but I meant what needs to be covered al pi halacha.

[rebayzl]

Rabbi, you may try Shilchon Oruch of the Alter Rebbe Siman 75.

[ChachChach]

thanks for clearing that up

[funnsmart1]

That brings you back to the age old discussion of what the ultra chaseedishe guys do in boro park, they walk the streets without glasses so as not to chas vsholom see a woman,,,,,,
Perhaps men can control themselves and not look so much at the women they see. Why do men feel that they need to judge if it is a wig or not??
OK OK, I understand that you say that when he is walking down the street and happens upon a lady with beautiful hair he may notice it, that is a different aspect of tznius, does she look provocative or whatever else, on the other hand the subject of ervah and covering her hair, and if her shaitel looks real, and if it is in fact made of her own hair has nothing to do with that aspect of tznius.
ervah is the reason a person covers her hair. thats it. period. end of sentence. everything else is another subject.

[rebayzl]

Originally posted by CybeRabbi
Tried, (even quoted from there in my post) but didnt see exactly what you say, (but its a deep sugya with many subtelities, nuances and opinions, the above post is but one apparoach.)

It may be deep but i see over there "places that is customary to cover" NOT RELATED TO HAIR. So your premise that Hair cover depends on "custom" and other parts do not, does not hold up.

[BrookAve]

My wife wears them till they begin to look ratty. Since she teaches, she has to look presentable. She started to wash and style them herself and they came out ok. I like the natural look, not like a helmet of hair. She has saved $ and puts away the $35 a month she used to spend to buy a new one. What an Aishes C hayil !

[NevEr]

Funnsmart1--don't "diss" other Chassidim!
the reason a women covers her hair is not ---to look ugly!! Thats like saying the reason we dress tznuis is so that we look ugly!!Therefore a sheital can look 10000% real.
(is this what you were trying to say funn?)

[thatswhy]

i would like to go back to the original disscousin of a wig made from ur own hair. there no din in the entire torah that a woman must look ugly. a woman may dress gorgeous but she has to look reserved.
a woman with her hair coverd is reserved no matter what covering type of covering she is wearing.
u'leho'ir the gemarah shabbos ch.6 writes concerning a woman going out on shabbos wearing her own hair as wig.

[masbir]

The question is not, gorgeous versus ugly, but if a sheital is an erveh as many many poskim hold that way, or not. We in Chabad are accepting the other opinion.

But its not THAT simple.

[vusveisichuber]

In one aspect, a wig is actualy better than a kerchief or hat, halachacly - as there is halachic opinion to wear 2 coverings, which you have in a wig - plus a wig actually covers the complete head -if intended to, and does not slip.

[hishtatchus]

Did anyone hear of a limit to the percentage of your own hair you can use in a Shaitel? Or is that a Bubbe Maise?

[Jude]

my cousin is getting married to a girl who had hair down to here, and after she got engaged she cut it off, leaving a tiny ponytail, and she's having a sheitel made out of it for $700 (after all, she's supplying the hair). No trouble matching colors!

[abiselseichel]

<<a woman with her hair coverd is reserved no matter what covering type of covering she is wearing.>>

If the head covering is supposed to prevent the hirhur of men, then why are custom sheitels etc. muttar? If the man annot tell that it's a wig, what's stopping his hirhur?

also, if one wears a head covering other that a sheitel, it is a clear signal that she is married, and therefore KEEP BACK. However if one wears a sheitel that looks real, there's no indication that this woman is reserved?

please clarify, this issue bothers many becoming frum girls.

[masbir]

Did you read post 8? read and tell me if you still have the question. I think it is a fine logical answer.